Bit of background. I am 45yo male. I had a CT scan for an unrelated issue and they made some discoveries on that scan.
What was found was left bladder wall thickening, left kidney hydronephrosis, left moderate enlarged ureter, prominent iliac lymph nodes. That was taken from the urgent 2 week wait referral which popped up on the NHS app.
I've not had any appointment with the GP, seen a urologist or had anyone explain it to me yet, its just all moved straight to going in for a flexible cystoscopy.
Due to some very bad things that happened to me as a child for many years, anything urological in terms of contact is terrifying.
So as you can imagine, I was a bit of a mental mess when i turned up at the cystoscopy.
Unfortunately it all went horribly wrong. Despite all my emotions telling me to run, I stayed and they started the procedure. I felt pain when they were trying to insert the camera and the doctor/specialist told me they were stopping as they couldn't get the camera into the bladder (my words not theirs). They made me sit down and the doctor explained that I am going to have to have a TURBT with dilation under General Anaesthetic, gave me the leaflet and started to explain the two main types of bladder cancer to me (non and muscle invasive). She did a little drawing of the bladder and I vagely remember her drawing a line on the left wall and something by the left ureter, but its all a blur. I did ask a few questions that i could blurt out but she couldn't answer them, like what could it be etc.
I have a history of poor mental health anyway so things have been a bit difficult.
After speaking to Macmillan on the phone and in person at a information center, I have been able to calm a bit and are a bit more informed with reliable sources as opposed to googling the CT findings which pretty much say in screwed.
Following week I was given the date for the PreOp. After speaking with macmillan, they advised me, and i came to the same conclusion, to be totally honest at the preop about the undisclosed childhood issues as well as any other medical symptoms that arent on my medical record (I really probably should have seen my GP on many occasions in the past!). Knowing I would find it hard to say some things, I typed it all up and handed it to the nurse at the PreOp.
She was really understanding and kind which did help a lot. My surgery had been planned as a day case the following monday (this week), however due to no one to supervise for 24 hours and a couple of other medical issues that op had to be cancelled and moved from the local hospital to the main hospital where the regional Urological center is. Its rescheduled for next wednesday. I can't complain about the speed of things so far but things are happening quicker than i can keep up in my head - but thats not the NHS's fault.
I guess the urgency is the main issue, but I feel left in the dark about what is happening. Im used to the "typical" way of: seeing your gp, having some tests, maybe more tests etc some kind of diagnosis or consult, then treatment. I was hoping someone would sit me down and say "this is what we found, it could be x, y or Z, to be safe incase its Z, we are doing cystoscopy etc". I know nobody is going to say what it maybe without any high level of confidence but it would have eased my mind to have something from someone professional.
But that has not happened and i feel like Im just along for the ride with no choice of whats happening. I have been trying to go through this with Macmillan and they have been amazing. They have tried to find out if i have a key worker yet (I don't) and after discussing about how i find out what actually was on the CT scan and what it means, they advised that i can speak to the Specialist nurse at the urology department and they should be able to explain it to me to an extent.
Following the phone conversation, I didn't really learn anything new about what was on the imaging. Maybe I was being a bit naive to think I would get much info but i was hoping to find out where the tumours are size etc so i can at least visualise it in my mind so i understand what is happening. I also asked about at what stage I do get to speak to someone about some of these concerns which she said I can ask some questions before the op and the surgeon may come round afterwards, but she was fairly non-committal about what kind of stuff i can ask - i get that.
What has messed with my mind a bit, considering i was just getting to terms with the scope of what will happen in the TURBT, is that she was mentioning them doing the dilation and going in for a look and biopsy. I should have asked her more about did she mean removal but was anxious so didnt.
Now I am all confused. As the name of TURBT suggests, "removal of bladder tumour" is a key aspect of the procedure with a subsequent biopsy of the removed material. Now maybe I have confused her words about going to rake a biopsy, but i read that to literally mean a small tissue sample not complete (or as much as they can) removal.
To make things a bit worse mentally, I had done more research - although i followed macmillans advice to use more credible sources (eg macmillan or cancer research sites which are the main ones i read). From the various sources, it seems that over 90% of bladder tumours are cancerous. Not what anyone wants to hear but, it is what it is and I accept i may need to be realistic about it. If im lucky enough to be in the non cancerous group then great, but i dont want to clutch onto that and give myself false hope.
But this then leaves me confused about what is happening next. If those odds are accurate, and I have not misinterpreted the medical context, then to me, the idea of having a TURBT and only a biopsy rather than a removal makes no medical sense as Im already under a general, they already have a rigid cytoscope inserted etc. I my eyes if that was the case I'd just be having a "rigid cystoscopy" (and dilation as well).
So It all doesn't make sense to me. If its just a biopsy, and it turns out to be cancerous, I have to go back soonish for a TURBT anyway and go through all the mental trauma of it again when they could have done it all in one is difficult to understand.
Maybe I've just latched onto the nurses words too much and overthinking it.
I know that if it turns out cancerous, there may well be future TURBT procedures, chemo etc all of which will involve mental trauma given my past, on top of the obvious worries and difficulties anyone would have with such treatment and its potential implications.
I had been mentally trying to "kick the can down the road" in terms of dealing with the anxiety of that until after the biopsy results and just get through thing next week, but now I am worried one procedure is going to statistically turn into 2, before I even get onto what could be a long path of treatment.
I know I've rambled on a bit but trying to make sense in my head - I can be very analytical and calm about things when I have some info, or people can explain things to me in a matter of fact way, with reasonable opinions, chances etc - then I can process it in my head and find a balance to help me carry on.
Anybody got any thoughts or advice?
Hi Warren
The 'r' in Turbt stands for resection of a bladder tumour ie removal of all or as much as possible. The removed material is then analyzed to give you a grade and stage. Its common or garden so you should be back to normal in a few days with a bit of luck. You will get your results some time later. Good luck.
Hi WarrenP,Welcome to our friendly,supportive group.I hope that you will find it helpful and we can reassure you a bit.Whether you have something cancerous or not the usual stages are you go for a flexible cystoscopy first.If they find anything that needs to be investigated further/biopsied then you are asked to come back for a rigid cystoscopy under a general anaesthetic.They will remove tumours and send these off to be biopsied.I used to get ulcers and red patches removed and analysed under a TURBT.It’s common with cancerous tumours or larger suspicious areas to have a follow up TURBT a few weeks after the first.The surgeon may well come round and speak to you after the procedure but this does not always happen.I used to find it helpful to email urology with any questions or if you are assigned a helpful cancer nurse specialist (CNS) to ask them anything.Please do ask any questions or share your worries here too.There is a wealth of experience on here and we all support one another.
Once your biopsy results are back you can expect an appointment to discuss the results with the consultant and told what treatment is needed.It’s a lot to take in and I’m so sorry you struggle with your mental health.I hope this helps to explain the process a bit.Best wishes Jane
So Im confusing the rigid cystoscopy with a TURBT when they are one of the same? I know its the same tool, camera etc. Do they use the phrase interchangeably? If so I am probably reading too much into it and just getting myself worked up unnecessarily. well that probably anyway!
Ok, so realistically the first chance i might get to ask my 6 million questions of the medical team would be the consultation post biopsy?
Hi WarrenP and a welcome from me. A TURBT (trans urethral resection of bladder tumour) is a procedure done using a rigid cystoscope. The cystoscope has a camera and various tools on the end to scrape away anything unusual and take biopsies. Samples are sent away for analysis and it takes a few weeks for results. The early days of not knowing can be the worst. Even doctors do not really know what is going on until they see inside your bladder. The procedure can be done in day surgery but prepare for an overnight just in case. When results are in and you know exactly what you are dealing with you then have something positive to focus on. Best wishes.
Sounds like you have a lot to contend with, am glad you have got support from Macmillan.
The usual course of action is a flexi cystoscopy to have a look, from which they can sometimes give a provisional diagnosis, but more often they follow up with TURBT anyway, to remove as much of any tumour (if that's what is there) as possible, so in a sense you are following the standard pathway. Yes, a rigid cystoscopy is used to do the TURBT, but can sometimes be used for other reasons.
It is not uncommon for the medics not to commit to a diagnosis until they have path reports back from the biopsy of whatever they remove. You may get some information when you come round from the anaesthetic, but more likely you will have to wait until the report is back from the lab and the hosp has a multi-disciplinary team meeting to discuss the results and collectively come to a recommended course of action. This is usually in line with NICE guidelines. You should have a face to face meeting with a consultant to discuss next steps.
If it is bladder cancer, there are a variety of treatment options depending on the stage and grade: https://www.macmillan.org.uk/cancer-information-and-support/bladder-cancer/staging-and-grading-of-bladder-cancer
If it turns out to be something else, they will discuss this with you. Hope all goes well. Feel free to drop in here to ask any questions or just for a chat, but bear in mind we are patients with experience, not medics.
Hi winkers, yes it feels like I havent had a clear explanation.
It would have been easier if they just said "we are doing this, this and this for now, and wont have any answers until x date." Doesnt help that sometimes you find conflicting information that then muddies the waters.
Hi sorry to hear all that, that was one heck of a read. It clear you have been having a hard time.
As they were unable to do a flexible cystoscopy then they ahbr booked you in for a rigid under GA they will remove anything that looks suspicious and take biopsies. Once they have the results back from pathology they will arrange an apoitmnet to discuss it all with you.
It does feel like a whirlwind when things are moving so quickly bit they tend to not say a lot until they have all the info as to whether it is cancerous and the grading etc. It does take a while can be several weeks after the TURBT before you get a follow up. 3 to 4 weeks usually in my case.
I have rigid check ups every 3 months just because I can't handle the flexi, but I've also had 2 lots of chemo once a week over 6 weeks to try and stop my recurrences which again isn't pleasant bit it's just a catheter going in, drain any urine and push the chemo liquid in.
If they can do the chemo was at the TURBT they do but it's not always possible so sometimes it has to be done once a week for 6 weeks as in my case.
There are lots of its and buts at the moment and it feels over bearing we all have been there, but things will settle down a bit once they have all the info and a treatment plan for you.
Of course it could end up not being cancerous so just try not to dwell on it all being bad and wait to see what the results are. At least then you know what you are dealing with.
Most of what has happened with the hospital in certainly normal in my case with how we're handled.
At the moment they can tell you what they think it is or likely to be but without the pathology they could be wrong, hence why they wait for results and discuss those results in a team meeting before you get a follow up.
Good luck and try not to stress about it and risk making yourself worry about things they may not happen etc
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