Cancer and anger - need help.

Hi Moux

I saw you hadn't had an answer yet, and I don't want you to think no one is listening. They are. 

Your situation seems to be very complicated, and I don't have any easy answers. If you look back through this forum you will see that many, many people have encountered similar problems, when the cared for just doesn't seem to welcome the carers efforts, or even there presence.

I can only make a couple of suggestions. Can you tell the medical team that the new chemo seems to be having these mood changing effects? I know it is difficult when you are not the spouse and so maybe not the designated next of kin or  attorney, but it could be worth a try. Sometimes medication can be tweaked or added to to address this sort of problem.

I don't know how much actual physical care your partner needs, but if it isn't 24 hour nursing, could you take a step back? Maybe if you could take a few days out, it would help you to regain some calm, and it might clarify how your partner feels about your relationship and your contribution. It might also help her family to work out how much they want to contribute, apart from making judgemental remarks.

Sometimes people can't cope, sometimes the stress of being ill really does make people feel that they want a different life, and a different ( or no) partner. Often , these are issues which you can work out, and you do reach a new way of coping together.

But kicking the wall is not the answer ( I presume it was plasterboard and not brick......) though it is quite a moment of truth...

I hope you find a way onwards 

Niobe

Moux

Maybe a call to the wonderful people here may supply some answers

Us cancer patients are tricky to deal with. Damned if you do something damned if you don't as a carer

Both of you need mental and emotional health support.

Please seek it for you both

Be thinking of you both

Take care

Leolday

Hi , sorry you are in the middle of this, as has been said your position is not uncommon and sometimes the person with cancer is in such a degree of shock with their cancer they fail to consider at all the impact on the people who care about them. Many carers emotionally feel they suffer more than some patients and this disconnect can be a real problem.

I am very glad I found support at my local Maggies and on here, please keep posting on here and if you feel it would be helpful it might be an idea to speak to someone, You are welcome to ring the helpline here 0808 808 0000 (open Monday to Friday 9am-8pm and it's a free phone call). You might also like to contact carers uk.

<<hugs>>

Steve

Hi Moux

My partner’s original diagnosis was slightly different. G3S4 ER+HER2- but some of what you’  said rings bells for me. 

Some great points in the thread here but I’d like to encourage you take a different approach to your partner’s painful remarks. 

You are giving consideration to her distress but she isn’t seeing yours. When she makes remarks about having cancer and why are you so upset with your life I’d suggest you reply with honesty...

Because I love you and hate to see you suffering/unwell

Because I wish this wasn’t happening to you or to us 

Because I am worried about you 

Because I can’t seem to do anything right

Because I wish I could make it better

If she’s challenging that you're not going through anything then she’s wrong

Watching your partner suffer and fearing changes to your future impact greatly on you too. Tell her this. It’s not the same pain but it’s still pain. 

I saw a woman in the Hospice and her husband hadn’t a clue. When she was vomiting he stepped back. When my partner vomits I fetch a bowl, then tissues, then a warm flannel, then cool water, encouraging her to rinse her mouth (taking the taste away helps not only with unpleasantness but also with prevention of more nausea) I remove the bowl and wash it and offer a fan or s window or a clean top. I’m proactive. You may be too, but if you can’t think what to do, then I’d ask. I constantly ask my partner, do you want anything, can I do anything when she’s in a crisis moment . 

Ask her what she’d like you to do and tell her that you want to be helpful. 

We’ve had our moments in the past, where I felt she wasn’t appreciating all that I did and I have said. I’m doing my best here, if you want me to do something different please just say. Just don’t criticise my efforts. I want to help as much as I can. 

I’ve never felt the need to hit or kick anything and if that’s something you’ve done before then perhaps you should be seeking more support for yourself than just this forum but hopefully knowing that you have lots of people who understand your challenges and want to help you succeed will make you feel supported. 

G'day Moux,

I feel your pain mate, I really do.

I am my wifes carer and have been for over 5 1/2 years. I'd like to say that we've been "fighting the good fight", "pulling together" and "working things through" but I can't - bullshit isn't a weapon that works for long.

Early on, there was tremendous anger from her and equal parts guilt, fear and anger from me (AKA the carers cocktail). She thought I should do more. I thought I could better. She thought I stopped caring. I thought she stopped caring (for herself and for me). Round and round it went for several months. In 30 odd years of marriage, we had never really had a fight, but 6 months with cancer as a guest and it had become an almost daily occurence. It was wearing her down, it was wearing me down and it was breaking us apart. She was hateful, resentful, spiteful and obscenely demanding. I was belligerent and defensive. Both of us were lashing out and neither of us were looking where the blows landed.

I forget what particular incident bought it to a head but we both ended up in tears in the bedroom. I think we both just realized that we had both been angry at cancer but had been taking it out on the wrong people. 

Cancer has the nastiest habit of inserting itself in between two people. It becomes a barrier to whatever love and respect existed between the two. And when you lash out, it simply sidesteps and lets the anger land elsewhere. It's a elusive, crafty, dodgy sort of bastard.

It makes people act in ways that they wouldn't ever normally contemplate (and that goes for both sides - the patient and the carer). But that's cancer. It's not the person you fell in love with. They are still in there. They may be knee deep in pity or fear, but they are still in there. You may not see that person at times. It can be hard to see though the foggy layers of fear, anger and guilt  that cancer tries to wrap you in. They are still there. As are you.

No matter if you have the worlds greatest cancer specialists and a team of doctors and nurses at your beck and call - the two most important people in this fight and you and your other half. Talk to her. Get her to talk to you. Put all your fears on the table and let each other really look at them. It's not comfortable. It's not easy. It will probably take several goes to get it right.

Cancer's a bastard and it's enough of a fight for anyone. Don't let you or your loved one becomes its backup bastard.

Talk to the person that you love, not just to the patient you care for.

Just talk.

Peace,
Ewen :-)

Firstly thank you all for your kind and thoughtful responses,

Our emotional situation has improved slightly, albeit still a lot of mending to take place but there's some progress.

I have sought counselling support and so has she, further to that her family have also stepped in to support a bit more. It's been really tough for them to see the reality of what is happening. But it needed to happen, and I hope she has now accepted that it's ok to allow others to care. I've found it difficult to take a step back but actually it has relieved some of the pressure I was feeling. 

I've been in touch with her clinicians and they have suggested a change to her treatment strategy, some of her behaviour is definitely a direct result of chemo/steroids which might be adjusted. I must say it's a relief to know that some of the behaviour is merely due to physiological changes due to drugs rather than a psychological change.

That being said I am feeling very weary of her next round of chemo. I've been proscribed anti anxiety drugs to help with sleep and that has helped, as obvious as it sounds getting some deep sleep really helps....

I also just want to reassure you all, I have never lashed out physically at her or towards her. Kicking the wall (yes it was a plaster wall!) is completely out of charatcter for me and terrified me after the act for which I was emidiatly remorseful and shocked. It's the aftermath that was so hard to deal with as well as her subsequent reaction two days later. She destroyed our flat, launched herself at me with arms flaying at which point I had to wrap my arms around her to restrain her from attacking me and hurting herself and the house. She accused me of giving her cancer and for my mothers death, words used to hurt and they did...

Since then she has refused to acknowledge any of that behaviour and I've really struggled to let it go, she even went as far as telling her family that I made it up and that I was abusing her....fortunately I recorded some of it on my phone as I was afraid that she might try and use it against me. 

I have kept it all in for now and will wait till she agrees to see a counsellor with me in order to maybe discuss it with a mediator present.

I have no doubt that the cancer, the chemo, the grief, the anger and myself have a part to play in all of it. I feel like my mind is in hell at the minute but I refuse to despair, it might get worse but it might get better and that's all I can rely on. She's a wounded and terrified person that is lashing out, in time I hope she will learn to direct her anger at the cancer rather than those around her, I remain steadfast in my dedication to support her, but just a little worn out.

Again thank you all for your kind words, this truly is a shit illness....

Hi moux

It sounds like you’ve been positively proactive in addressing all of the different parts of this puzzle. 

I am pleased to hear  that you have sought support for yourself as this is clearly going to be a demanding situation for some time. I empathise with the tiredness. It’s hard. 

I wish I could send you sone energy and a reason to smile. 

Just sending an update and also venting a little....

Hard week at work been finishing at stupid hours which has left me feeling wiped out! Other half has been in a good week, she has two more cycles of chemo to go and then it will be time for surgery. 

Overall her mood has been pretty good although she has started really falling back into herself, she doesn't share any of her feeling about herself with me, she does it in order to protect me she says. In her internal narrative I can't handle what she feels and therefore she won't talk to me about it, ironically if I then don't understand how she feels I get scolded and told I am indifferent or to self obsessed to care, really can't do anything right....

I must say our relationship was on the rocks before her diagnosis, however as soon as we learnt the news for me it was clear that what had happened in the past  was irrelevant, all that mattered was her care and support. Of all the people around her I've taken the most time off work to be there for her, and have received no thanks for it, as if it were a given. If anyone else has to sacrifice time to be with her she instantly gets upset and at times takes it out on me, I don't understand how she links the two together. There's a bizar dynamic of push and pull that has started happening, I think much of it stems from her fears that when/if the treatment is over I will run away. Something I have never said to her nor even considered, or at least until recently. Somehow her predictions are becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, the more she doubts me and the more she pushes me away the more likely it will happen, thereby confirming her own fears, in a sense I see it as a means for her to maintain an element of control....the sad thing is i don't want this to happen, but nothing I seem to do or say can change the way she thinks.

Her clinicians have suggested putting her on mild anti depressants, as her last outbursts (despite her refusal to accept they happened) were terrifying. All the family seem to agree that something was not quite right....However yet again, I made this happen, and it's my fault that everyone is worried....Not the fact that she has cancer and that people want to help.....

I'm starting to despair and to think that I am a greater cause of stress and pain in her life than a source of comfort or relief...Maybe I should let go and let her family step in for a while, if her mood improves consequently and she feels less stress then that is the answer, as painful as it will be.

This cancer rollercoaster is absolute shit for everyone on it! Not least the patient herself but everyone it touches. I hate it, I want normality back, I want to feel some sense of joy and hope again. I feel tired and isolated and to an extent absolutely trapped what kind of person can feel resentment towards someone suffering with such an illness, how twisted and messed up this Illness is just infuriates me!

Thanks for reading and sorry for being all over the place....

One tired carer to another... 

You are certainly in a very complicated place. 

You mention that your relationship was on the rocks before the diagnosis. Have you considered the possibility that some of the problems you are experiencing are because of this, and not because of the cancer at all? Although I understand that you want to be there for her and support her, she may be feeling overwhelmed by this change both in her circumstances and in the way you behave within the relationship. 

I would suggest that you do take the step back that you mentioned and, rather than wait until she is ready to seek counselling with you, get some independent counselling for yourself now, to help you clarify your thoughts. Let her family do more for a while, and give her a chance to gather her thoughts. It sounds to me as if you both need a little breathing space.

Julie 

Moux

You no doubt will feel a range of emotions that can be sapping and a total rollercoastet

But as an outsider I can see many pluses in your responses in your last post. You are actually answering yourself in many ways. And in the cold light of morning may well see that. 

Julie in the previous post has made some good points that may help you move on

Time to step back and share the feelings emotions and the graft with her family sounds a good idea

Keep posting venting and getting the support for you. Time maybe to be selfish. In doing so you will recharge your batteries.

take care

Leolady