Testosterone replacement therapy: Testogel vs Nebido injections

Wee update on this issue (especially for Greg).

I felt crappy all last week after starting the Nebido, so organised a blood test. I had it last Friday and the result came back today at just 8 (as you know the normal T level range is 10 to 30). So I know where I stand and what is causing the shittiness.

The endocrinologist thinks the Nebido hasn't kicked in yet. I didn't realise it would take so long to start! Anyway, he has told me to top up with half a gel a day until it does kick in (I have no idea when it will kick in).

So there is a huge amount of trial and error going on. I suspect that if things don't improve I may knock the Nebido jabs on the head before the next one is due and return to the gels.

If anybody else has any Nebido experiences it would be interesting to hear them.

Cheers
Jason

Hi Jason 

I get that feeling from my endo doc as well when I ask questions about it, I'm starting on the Nebido injections on Wednesday so will be able to update later in the week.

I have build up some Tostran just in case I feel rubbish at the end before the next injection - this was the doctors idea.

The Tostran Gel has got my level from 3.9 up to 11.4 but the endo would like this to be nearer 15 so he suggested the injection route.

Dan

Hi Dan

Keep me posted how you get on.

I didn't expect my level to drop (from 18 to 8) so quickly after starting the Nebido. I just assumed it would deplete towards the end of the injection cycle. But I do know that Nebido doesn't work for everybody.

The first injection is called a loading dose so I can only guess that it takes time to start working from the injection site. I am due the second jab (a "booster") in about five weeks so will top up with gel if I feel i need it. I think the secret might be to be guided how you feel rather than get hung up on the numbers.

For the record, the jab itself was a breeze. It didn't hurt at all and I am a bit of a needle-phobe.

Best of luck
Jason

Hi Jay,

good to get an update from you, I hope it kicks in, but you have the gel option if it doesn't. The time to kick in is important to me as I guess it affects me a little on the start of each new cycle

I've been doing some more digging on 'normal' levels as mine was 11 at the end of my last cycle, and the endo seemed happy with that 

My GP in the early days said normal was 8~32nmol/L. I felt shit at 10.8, and worse still down at 5. What does normal mean? it seems that to be abnormal you have to have readings in the bottom 5% of healthy people. Testosterone decreases with age too, and so using the same range for a 20 year old and for an 80 year old seems daft to me.  So I went digging...

http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/normal-testosterone-levels-in-men.html

This page gives average levels per age and standard deviation. I love the Americans - the international SI units used in the UK are given (nmol/L) but also the 'conventional' units which I guess means American :-)

Looking at the 3rd table on the page "Average Testosterone Levels by Age (Healthy Non-Diabetic Males)"  and at the 45-59 age group (mine). Then the Average level is 18.91nmol/L with a standard deviation of 5.66. For those who did maths a long time ago, this means:

Average Testosterone level     18.91

68.2% of men were between  13.25 and 24.57   (+/- 1 s.d)

Also looking at the last columns for 45-49 yrs, my reading of 11 is in the bottom 5% still, and something above 12.5 and closer to 15 would be more normal.

On my next endo consultation I'll broach the subject...

Greg

Ace work pal.

I felt shit at 4, shite at 6 and am feeling shitty at 8. I also felt crappy at 10 back in July. (Running out of suitable adjectives now).

But I felt healthy and well when it was 18 when I was on 1.5 sachets of gel a day. I only switched because i didn't want the gel to transfer to my missus or teenage daughters from towels etc as they might start growing beards!

I'm 43 so I know that 1.5 sachets of gel a day work for me, so maybe it is a case of better the devil you know and I should ditch the Nebido.

If you are feeling well at 11 then that might work for you, but I suppose you might feel even better if it was around the 18 mark. It's defo worth broaching the subject but if the Nebido dose is fixed at 1000mg then how can you boost it (without gels)? Can they offer a higher dose of Nebido?

My endo is a nice man and replies to my emails but I'm unconvinced that he's any good! I think he focuses too much on numbers and if he sees a number that is within a normal range he thinks everything is fine and that box is ticked.

Cheers
Jason

Hi Jay,

If I think it needs upping then they can reduce the interval perhaps to 9 weeks or I can supplement in the last weeks. I can't be doing too badly as I continue to set personal bests in the gym and am as fit and strong as in my early 30's. I reckon you're right though - a few extra points might make me feel a little better. I've still got two full boxes of testogel.

I find my GP is a little more easy to influence, and as it seems to be up to me to organise appointments for the injection I can probably also work it to be under 10 weeks, but would prefer to do it with the endo's agreement.

Next time I see my endo I may say "yes 11 is within the range you have, but its also lower than the average 85 year old..."

Greg

Afternoon 

Just had my first Nebido injection and the left cheek is a bit sore but it was certainly alot better than I thought it was going to be.

I completely forgot about the injection happening this morning when I got up and splashed on 8 pumps of Tostran as usual so hopefully that wont cause any problems!! Have now hidden away the gel so I don't do the same thing tomorrow morning - been applying the gel now for 6 months now so I'm well trained in the morning.

Going to have the next one in 6 weeks time and also went to see my GP today who has made sure the Tostran prescription is still available if I need a top up.

Dan

Hi Dan,

I hope it goes well for you - we're all learning about how to manage this, so your experiences are going to be invaluable.

I'm in week 9 of a 10 week cycle now, feeling ok, and matched a personal best on the rower in the gym yesterday, so the objective measures suggests all is ok, but subjectively I feel a little tired, slightly foggy, and not very romantically inclined. So feels like 10 weeks is about right for me now. I'm holding off the testogel supplement  so I can see how it changes over the last few days.

Greg

Hi Dan

Good luck. I went downhill about 10 hours after the jab. A week later I had a blood test and the testosterone level had dropped from 18 to 8.

I am now topping up with gel but, to be honest, I don't feel much better yet. The docs reckon the Nebido may not have kicked in yet.

I'm very sceptical it is working at all. If I don't feel any better over the next few weeks I might just not bother with the six-week booster and return to the gels. At least I know they work.

Your experience will be interesting.

Kind regards

Jason

Jason sorry to here that isn't working out, no one has told me anything about the injection taking time to kick in.

I guess I will see in the next few days when I don't do the gel in the morning.

You are right about knowing the gel worked.