Immunotherapy up

  • 3 replies
  • 56 subscribers
  • 1898 views

Hi All,

I haven’t posted for a while so wanted to check in on how my immunotherapy journey is progressing. It’s proving to be something of a rollercoaster ride and I feel the need to download and get a bit of support and advice!

I started on Nivo/Ipi in March. but had to switch to Nivo only after one infusion due to Covid and some emerging side effects - mostly stomach bloating. The latter settled down after I switched to Nivo supported by taking omeprazole, and I went through the April and May infusions with nothing much more than an occasional sore mouth.

I had my 4th infusion at the beginning of June and then a scan in mid June. The brilliant news was that it showed that I was responding, the existing mets in my lungs were shrinking and there was nothing new elsewhere.

But it also showed some inflammation in my gut, likely from immunotherapy toxicity. I wasn’t surprised as I’d noticed some symptoms just starting to reappear in the days leading up to the scan. But I’m wondering if there was something else contributing to these symptoms, as 11 days before the scan I'd had what we initially thought was a urine infection - it started the day after the 4th infusion -  and they got me started straight away on a week’s antibiotics. The bloating began to reappear just after I finished the antibiotics.

The annoying thing is the lab test later showed no urine infection and the symptoms cleared up within a week, so I took the antibiotics unnecessarily.  But a few weeks later - this Monday - I had another episode of symptoms (some pain and some blood in the pee for a few hours, followed by gradually easing bouts of urgent and frequent peeing in the following days). Again the urine test shows no sign of infection.

I’ve now spoken to my consultant and her view is that both the bloating and the urinary issues are down to immunotherapy toxicity.  This week’s infusion has been cancelled and I’m now on some steroids - prednisolone - to dampen it down. I started them on Tuesday and despite a slight lessening in the intensity of the symptoms in those 2 days, the dose has been upped until Monday, when we’ll review again.

The real worry from today’s discussion though was the potential threat of my treatment being stopped altogether due to toxicity. I hadn’t thought for a moment that this was on the cards. At the most I thought we’d delay a while, and to be fair this is still on the table, but was framed rather worryingly as “we could try one more infusion to see if it was the antibiotics”.

I’m not overly happy with this despite the reassurances that immunotherapy is not about completing a course but having enough to retrain the immune system to destroy the melanoma, and is different for each individual. She says my immune system is already responding and I may not need any further treatment, and cited examples of patients only managing one infusion and still being there 7 years later.  But this seems a hell of a leap back into finger-chewing uncertainty when I was expecting to continue with monthly infusions for the next 2 years or so.

I’ve also separately spoken to a male nurse at my GP surgery, as he’s been dealing with the urine tests, and he’s cautioned against the risk of “confirmatory bias” from the immunotherapy team, as in automatically attributing the urinary symptoms to immunotherapy. He’s suggesting that a urology referral might be considered, as the symptoms could be down to something else, either sinister (first signs of prostate or bladder cancer) or more prosaic (an enlarged prostate irritating my bladder).

When I raised this with my consultant she said my recent CT scan showed no evidence of problems in my bladder or prostate, but it did show that my prostate is slightly larger than is usual for a man of my age (51). This wasn’t a surprise as I’d had a few prostate issues over the years and have to manage an urgent need to pee in the colder weather. So there’s certainly form there.

So there we have it: back on the rollercoaster. In a few short weeks I’ve gone from the euphoria of getting a response at the first scan to the anxiety of facing the possibility of having my treatment stopped altogether.

I just hope that these symptoms settle and that my consultant doesn’t leap to any hasty decisions. She’s quite a cautious, black and white type of personality while I get the feeling from reading other people’s accounts they some of their consultants are far more flexible when it comes to treatment.

Thanks all - needed to get that out of my head.

  • Hi , I’m sorry to hear you’re feeling unsettled at the moment ( that seems an understatement but I’m floundering for words ). That must have been great to hear it was responding, that your two small mets in the lungs were shrinking. I have met several people who had Ipi before nivo was available and yes some have remained stable for years with no growth and one mentioned that as several years have passed that if melanoma is on the move again she may well get to try Ipi again, I had always thought it was once only but things move on. Those people had to just cope with the uncertainty and they did cope, although I realise me saying that won’t necessarily seem helpful. On the flip side being off treatment provided things are going well with scans does feel great. I did it for a year April 2017 to 2018 (I’ve never had Ipi, it’s still in my back pocket) I was told that going back on to Dabrafenib is also an option for me and if you remained stable for a while that may possibly be another option? For you depending on the gap?.

    Of course you’re gutted though, it’s really hard to adjust from one visualisation of treatment for 2 years a stop and a very long gap of no return to well just a mess of uncertainty and fear. It takes a bit of resolve to hear treatment may stop, but you aren’t there yet. I have heard one of my consultants (there are 3 at my hospital) say that she doesn’t always play by the rules, and I wasn’t always sure if that was reassuring or not, in the context of you worrying that yours is black and white you might be reassured by a bit of leeway. I haven’t any experience of bladder or prostate complications but coincidentally my husband is going through a patch of that at the moment (without the melanoma) since March and his urology appointment isn’t for 3 weeks. 

    My consultants didn’t seem bothered about a break in treatment from February last treatment and a restarting in July planned in for me as the drug stays still working for a while. Steroids are the go to thing so I hope the gap and steroids work for you. I’m glad you raised what your nurse said even if you weren’t happy with the response that may mull that over. There might be a possibility of asking for a second opinion? My consultants seem to chat together all the time and I’m at a centre I’d excellence so I haven’t had to do that although I have asked for reassurance when I’ve been given what sounds like conflicting pathways. I would think that you would have more trust in your oncologist than a GP’s nurse, perhaps the wobble is because they are presenting the things you fear as a possibility and your feeling a bit like your looking control, I know that’s when I’ve felt most vulnerable. 

    I hope getting it down on paper has helped a bit, I feel that I can only reflect back what things sound like and give my experience of facing a blip in that it feels lonely, and takes a while to get your head in a different gear. That it takes something to say don’t look to far ahead just one step at a time and park some of those worries, but assess if there are any that need action now, and if not let them be.

    A gentle virtual hug coming your way.

    Take care KT

  • Hi

    I read your post with interest as it is similar to my experience. I was due to have 4 sessions of Ipi/Nivo for lung mets. I managed 2 (Feb and March) then wasn't allowed any more due to "Your blood tests aren't right" The oncologist said I had a high level of a substance called creatinine in my blood which was causing inflammation of the kidneys. I had no symptoms to indicate this and was feeling fine. Like you i was prescribed omeprazole, and steroids prednisolone. I was on a high dose of steroids to begin with 60 mg a day for a week or so then he reduced it to 50 mg. This stabilized the blood results for a while and he gradually reduced the steroids as the side effects aren't great...massive puffy face, weight gain, lethargy, breathlessness to name but a few. Like you I had a chest CT scan to see if the immunotherapy had started working. This took place at the end of April. This showed the tumours had shrunk and one of them wasn't even visible. The oncologist said it will go on working and I might not even need any more infusions. Over the last few weeks he was gradually reducing the steroids and I got down to 20 mg for a couple of weeks but the creatinine started to rise again so up went the dose and I am now on 40 mg a day. He also prescribed an immunosuppressant drug called Mycophenolate. I am on 2000 mg a day. It seems it's difficult to find a balance.....the immunotherapy had kick-started my immune system almost too well and now he is trying to damp it down with the steroids. I have been on steroids since the end of March and this week I had a bone density scan as prolonged steroid use can cause bone problems. I was also prescribed Calcium Carbonate and Vitamin D tablets.

    I'm sorry I can't offer any advice, as you say every patient is different and we have to trust what the doctors tell us. Like you I wasn't happy that my treatment had stopped but then on the other hand I don't want to end up with kidney damage/failure. I have had quite a lot of cancer treatment over the last few years and this is the first time I have encountered a problem so feel pretty fed up with it all.

    Please let me know how you get on and if there are any new developments in your treatment or situation. Good Luck.

    Diane

  • Thanks Diane and KT for your replies and your perspectives. Knowing that others are having similar experiences helps and a virtual hug is always welcome in such times!

    I do have a habit of living in the future (brain just wired that way) and am forever battling with the internal fast forward button.

    So it’s important to recognise that my treatment hasn’t been stopped yet, it still remains a possibility rather than an actuality, and even if it does get stopped, I guess I just have to put my faith in the fact that it’s already working and this might be all I need. In a strange way this might be a good thing: melanoma already retreating, plus preventing any further toxicity damage.

    What I’m struggling with though is this concept of “no way back”. It would seem much more sensible to stop, let things settle and then restart the Nivo as and when needed, eg if a scan shows a recurrence. I’m struggling to see why this wouldn’t be an option.

    I’m just not convinced that the urinary issue is immunotherapy related. I had a blood test and my kidney function is fine. I just have raised white blood cells, which I guess is consistent with a stimulated immune system. It would also seem strange that symptoms would come and go if it was immunotherapy related,

    I was started on 40mg of prednisolone, notched up to 50mg today. I’m really hoping it further reduces the bloating by Monday. We’ll just have to wait and see.

    Either way I will be resisting any decision to stop before we’re totally sure the immunotherapy alone is the culprit for these symptoms. I’ve read that it takes a month for the gut biome to recover after antibiotics and that would be a few weeks before we could rule that out. 

    Good luck everyone.