PLANT BASED DIET

Hi 

"Soy is a phytoestrogen, or a plant based estrogen. It contains two isoflavones, genistein and daidzein, which act like estrogen (the female sex hormone) within the body. Because estrogen plays a role in everything from breast cancer to sexual reproduction, this is where most of the soy controversy stems"

When I was researching oestrogen based foods this is what I found.  I think there are 2 schools of thought with Soy and I think 'moderation' is the key with soy (food and drink based).  I started on Almond milk, but then was told by someone to consider the environmental impact - can't win eh?

I did extensive research when I was diagnosed and had previously been advised how appalling my diet was -  based on the fact that I don't eat meat or fish.

I've attached the spreadsheet, which details which foods provide which vitamins etc / what they are good for in the body and at the bottom was a list I complied of the foods which were best for avoiding oestrogen. 

https://community.macmillan.org.uk/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/38/2476.List-of-vitamins-and-foods.xls

Best wishes,

Hi Lesley,

That is a very interesting piece of information you have pointed out regarding soy and I would prefer to be safe than sorry!

Thanks for the spreadsheet, that is so kind of you to share it with me.

Thanks,

T x

I have just bought The Living Kitchen by Tamara Green and Sarah Grossman. It looks at diet and cancer and provides lots of of information and recipes which are mainly white meat, fish or plant based and dairy free. I am vegetarian and have been drinking soya milk for quite a while so the information about soy is really interesting and will make me rethink about that. I want to make sure I am eating as healthily as  I can throughout this little lot and the recipes I have made so far are easy and tasty.

Hello,

I have been wondering about my diet and whether I could make further changes. 

I was diagnosed with secondary breast cancer January 2018, and am on chemotherapy long term.

I don’t smoke at all, and have cut down drastically on drinking wine to occasionally at weekends. 

 Before I retired on medical grounds Jan 2019, I had a fairly stressful career working with vulnerable youth in London. 
 

Currently I eat  salads eg endive/ tomatoes/ avocado/ sometimes fennel/ lemon juice/ x virgin olive oil. 
Fish eg lemon sole/ haddock/.
Try to avoid farmed fish because of unhealthy additives and life they lead. 

Protein is mainly via Veg/ Quinoa type burgers from health food store, or dairy see below. 

Fruit: strawberries/ blueberries/ raspberries/ Figs.

Vegetables: Broccoli mostly. 

I don’t eat meat at all and haven’t since early 1980’s mainly because I don’t like the taste/smell  or texture of it. My mum didn’t eat meat either. Mum lived to 92 and dad 90. There’s no cancer in my family that I’m aware of .

I do have a sweet tooth,  for chocolate milk and dark.  I also love a quality French Croissant with butter !!

Chemo has resulted in a weak digestion ( wasn’t good before health issues). So now I can’t tolerate onions/ garlic/ fried foods/ lentils/ legumes/ sardines & oily fish all cause bloating and heartburn/ flatulence.

I enjoy eating the following diary products: full fat organic milk/ full fat Greek Yoghurt/ Organic Goat or Sheep cheese/ unsalted butter. 

I have tried Soya milk but am not sure about the benefits as my cancer is oestrogen positive; also don’t like the taste. I don’t like the taste of Oat milk or Almond milk either. 

Is organic milk more healthy than non organic in terms of additives ? 
I don’t like eggs either .  To be honest no interest in cooking at all.

I make myself drink fluids,  as rarely feel thirsty:  water/ tea/ one coffee per day in morning. Don’t drink fizzy soda/ cola type drinks. 

I take Vit D3 on prescription and buy Vit B 12. Also eat a health shop yeast extract on crisp bread or organic whole meal muffins. ( Duchy). 

Judith xx

Hi . lesleyhelen. Lacomtekp

What info could you provide please regarding my post and organic v non organic etc? Thank you 

Judith xx

Hi Judith,

Im no expert so this is my own humble opinion.

To start with, your diet sounds healthy to me. Maybe now in the winter you can make vegetable soups and throw in some rice/pasta to fill you up. If you cannot tolerate onion, leek is a good alternative. You say you have no interest in cooking so you could batch cook and freeze.

Have you thought about adding nuts and seeds to your diet to ensure you are getting enough protein?

I would definitely avoid the soy milk, why don't you give the oat milk another shot?. I have just started having it in my tea and it's ok and to be honest better than nothing.

It sounds like you really need to up your intake of water, you should be drinking a couple of litres a day, especially if you are on long term chemo.

Organic milk comes from cows who haven't had anitbiotic pumped into them.  It also has a higher ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids, which is lower than in regular milk.  

Hope this helps!

Tx

Hi 

Sorry for the delay in replying, I have never read your profile before today having always just loved your posts on 'thought of the day'.  I must confess when I read that you were secondary BC, it was quite a shock and I'm really sorry to see that. On that note- I wonder now if the Oncotype DX test will now make a difference to the ladies that were diagnosed after you and I.  It came in more frequently shortly after I had finished my rads in 2017, but maybe had you had the test (same as my SIL who had secondaries from the same diagnosis as you and I - Grade 2 stage 1), chemo may have been provided earlier.  Who knows eh?  and I guess we can't change the past, but know that the latest ladies diagnosed are getting an extra check for their treatment plans.

OMG Judith, you sound the same as me - 'no interest in cooking at all' - I was always of the opinion if it took longer to cook than to eat, it was completely pointless!  I seriously lived on microwave cr*p - frozen pizzas, pot noodles, microwave chips etc. My favourite meal of all time was chip shop curry flavour pot noodle on top of microwave chips with tons of ketchup.... The only good thing I ate was at lunch times when, as I couldn't be bothered to make sandwiches I took fruit into work for lunch. On diagnosis, I ceremoniously ditched the pot noodles, lol.

Your question, is organic milk more healthy than non-organic? Who knows? but I personally believe it must be.  For all the additives /pesticides that are used, that go into our food and drink, then some articles I read on diagnosis mentioned that they increased oestrogen in the body. I personally have however stopped drinking organic oat milk 'cause it tastes absolutely revolting! and drink the normal oat milk.  I also read about cleaning products etc and their chemicals being bad for us and switched to Eco cleaning products - I use the Eco washing up liquid, but found that these products are not good enough for me with cleaning, so do use the standard cleaning products.

When I compiled my list of foods, broccoli seemed to come out 'on top' in the vegetables, so I personally get through 2  x large organic broccoli a week.  At one point it cost loads- £7.50 for the organic spears, but now my local supermarket sell them in their original form and instead of 69p normal, they are now £1 each - made a huge difference to my shopping bill!  

My friend became a fitness instructor well over a decade ago and from being not particularly interested in health and fitness she started becoming fascinated with it when she began her training.  One of the first changes she made I noticed was green tea.  (this is also on my list for countering ER+).  Green tea wasn't the 'norm' when she made the changes to her life, so she'd often just ask for hot water and bring her own tea bags whenever we were out - but a bit like vegetarianism, it's become the norm to have it available now in cafes.  In contrast to you Judith, I have always drunk loads.  I have always believed in the benefits of the body having fluids after suffering with cystisis a lot when I was in my 20's. Because of that I got used to drinking pints and pints in a day and I now drink 6 mugs of green tea, 3 mugs of coffee, 2 mugs of black tea and a couple of pints of squash (minimum).  Sounds a lot, but I've always said that if I was on a 'plane which crashed in a desert I wouldn't last 5 minutes as I'm always thirsty!  Because I've always drunk a lot, I've become more thirsty if that makes sense?  I have read that drinking too much green tea is bad for you - reduces iron, so I make a pot with one tea bag for 3 mugs, so that I don't have more than 2 green tea bags a day.

One of the biggest factors I personally believe, is stress - although denied by cancer research UK - "Most scientific studies have found that stress does not increase the risk of cancer. Some individual studies have suggested that stress can cause cancer, particularly breast cancer. But overall the evidence for this has been poor. ... This evidence tells us that stress itself doesn't cause cancer", This article says different.  By being medically discharged  from work at least that stress if off your shoulders Judith!  I had lost so many members of my family and was responsible for my Dad (level 3 disabled following a massive stroke plus he was devastated following my Mum's unexpected death - overdosed by hospital and was dealing with a solicitor regarding this until after my diagnosis) that I know my stress levels were through the roof and had been for at least 5 years before.  I also know I was drinking too much alcohol and ate cr*p.  I don't know when mine started at it was my first mammogram at 51 (I wonder if I'd been called at 50 if it would have been there?) It was a year and 3 months after the final of 6 family deaths / and my aged cat.    Cancer research say that it's our response to stress that can cause the cancer - ie lifestyle choices - yes, too much alcohol was my response, but surely that cortisol and being in a permanent 'fight mode' must have an effect?  I have a totally different reaction to stress now and although I tried mindfulness (just couldn't do it as it's not 'me'!), I do ensure that I don't work 24/7 (I work part time employed and run my own business), I purposely stop work at 8pm at the latest every day and relax and enjoy TV- whereas once upon a time I'd work from 8.30am - 12pm quite happily! I also ensure I have a minimum of an hour lunch break before I start my next job each day.  If I feel stress beginning to build, I actually stop working at my own business for a day to remind myself of why I do it.

My Dad used to have B12 injections as he had vascular dementia following his stroke and I used to take B12 vitamins before I started eating healthily (I have an egg with my veg. now).  B12 is fantastic for the brain apparently.

I think all the small things we change can add up to the biggest thing, for you, keeping it under control and for others, preventing reccurence.

Kindest wishes,

hello lesleyhelen , dreamthief  what happened and everyone posting about diet.

Thank you all so much for raising it, as it is driving me crazy trying to research diets. I made the mistake of taking notice of the Cambridge report on asparagine, started trying to avoid it (it is high in asparagus, broccoli etc and I had been living on asparagus.!)  Also because of Letrozole depleting our bone density ,I have been over dosing on cheese to get calcium, and protein since I had stopped eating meat.. thought i was doing the best for myself and I do so love cheese.

It is understandable that nutritionists say A balanced diet is the best" probably true. But we are all grasping at ways to help us fight cancer, and although there are some brilliant new thoughts on immunotherapy , diet etc it can take years to be recommended. So I have been drinking lots of skimmed milk for calcium and vitamin D..never thought of the hormones given to cows!

 Lesleyhelen, like you, I have had huge stress and really believe it was a factor . My unsympathetic doctor probably thinks it was due to HRT but I was on it for thirty years and ended up with being asked by BC nurses how I had managed to stay so fit when I never exercised ..just worked hard.  No arthritis, heart trouble etc.  And my bones were very good.because of HRT a lady oncologist said. The doctor didn't advise me to try gels or patches, didn't inform me I could ask for a mammogram after 70 (when they no longer recall you) and I still think HRT  was good in many ways.  I just should have tried better ways of absorbing it.

Stress; my first husband died of cancer ,then after six years of real happiness with a lovely second husband he too died of cancer, my mother died ,my dog died and I was flooded.living on my own. ...all in 2007. So who knows.

Meanwhile I am not giving up a glass of red wine (told Pinot Noir is the best for cancer patients) ,still eating rich tea biscuits with a nice hot cup of tea, and enjoying dark chocolate .( to reduce stress! )

Seriously, lets keep in touch , look at any new discoveries on plant benefits and how to avoid some foods ........       but without losing sight of the benefits of enjoying life.   Who wants to end their life living on bird seed. 

Good luck and very warm hugs . 

Does anyone know if the receptors are more or most likely to be found in TNBC cells,  which is the type used on thr Cambridge tests? Restricting or eliminating basically every source of protein ( beef,  poultry,  fish,  seafood, dairy,  soy,  legumes,  nuts) leaves pork and maybe some beans??

Is there a chart anywhere which shows the amounts contained in each, like might be found for vitamins,  minerals,  fat,  protein etc.?

This is a really interesting discussion so thank you all!  I’ve altered my diet to be almost entirely vegetarian and organic wherever I can.  I’ve also had doubts about soya but do use it for protein.  Regarding stress as a direct cause of cancer, I don’t think so but I do think when we experience stress it can drive us to consume more alcohol, eat more fatty, sugary food, do less exercise etc, all of which are linked to cancers.