Late/Missed diagnosis claim

Hi peterawake, so sorry you have had to endure such mismanagement. Yes,it will drag on, and be very stressful, and reawaken the trauma, but these doctors should be held to account. How will they learn if nothing is done? I understand your hesitation, it is a big undertaking. On,y you can decide. Good luck and big hugs, whatever you do. Xxx

Hi peterawake

A difficult subject and a difficult one to answer.  It is as has been said that unless held to account the doctors etc won't be held accountable for their errors, NHS insurance will be in force in relation to the money aspect - although I know it won't be about that!

In contrast - stress of taking the case forwards.

I pursued a claim against the NHS (not breast cancer), but my Mum died of sepsis/overdose of opiates 5 years ago.  In summary - cut toe by NHS chiropodist, got infected, hospitalised and toe amputated, discharged.  I knew something wasn't right with her on the day she was discharged - she wasn't acting right to me... and for the next 2 weeks was on the phone to the doctors as a pain started in her back.  Her doctors kept running blood tests etc and eventually I had had enough and called an ambulance for her.  Admitted and for 2 days they mucked up which doctor was caring for her.  When she was eventually treated "not sepsis, but unwell - sips of water".  By the time the scans were done, her kidneys had nearly failed due to lack of fluids - first thing they should do to treat sepsis and give antibiotics.  Turned out it was sepsis and it had attacked her spine.  They then gave her opiate painkiller.  Then gave her a back brace after 3 weeks bed rest to begin physio.  Physio said so many times the back brace wasn't the right fit and pain getting worse.  And so it went on.... Then they thought she might be suffering dementia. What???? she was the most switched on person ever - and carer for my Dad who was 100% dependent having been wheelchair bound and blinded by a stroke.  Eventually due to her kidneys suffering yet again to the opiate drugs they put her on fentanyl patch and gabapentin.  The junior doctor forgot to stop the opiate drugs as well and prescribed 3x the amount she should have.  I was visiting every day and questioning the doctors about her condition etc.  I kept trying to get her to drink fluids etc  - they kept telling me she was 'doing well'

She eventually stopped breathing and her heart stopped due to the drug overdoses and after another day they took her to ICU.  She died 3 days later.  Her notes - I went through them and contacted a solicitor.  They weren't giving her drink, they weren't paying attention to warning signs that should have been obvious etc.

3 years the solicitor and I worked on her case (a local solicitor) .  He had 15 files of casework and finally we had a conference call with a barrister , a gp, and a consultant.  The upshot?  We wouldn't win a case in court because she didn't die until 3 days later!  My solicitor was as distraught as I and said that what we expect and often receive from the NHS (because often we DO get fantastic treatments) and what will win in court is a mile apart and despite all these literally nearly 100 errors they made in my Mum's case (I went through and listed them all!).  So after 3 years of re-living every day of my Mum being ill initially in April (NHS 111 cocked up as well!!) until 19th June it was just 'the end'.  I got no apology or satisfaction and my Dad lost his wife of 55 years.  

I believe that stress (caring for my Dad, the case, selling their house to pay for Dad's care etc) contributed to my breast cancer.  

So - think long and hard.  How much work do you think it will be?  It is ENOURMOUS!  Can you cope with reliving everything all the time? Can you cope if it turns out the experts then think at the end of the work done that really there isn't sufficient to prove your case. 

Hard questions to ask, but you need to ask them now before you decide to go ahead (especially if it's no win, no fee - I had part and part - paying for experts and paperwork, but not my solicitors time).  If it's no win, no fee you may not be able to back out if it becomes too much.

Kindest wishes, 

Hi lesleyhelen,

Thank you for your reply. I feel torn, they have an answer for all their unfortunate mistakes and I live every day worried about the Cancer coming back. I do feel concerned that if I take the case forward it will be too much stress for me, so I probably won't take it forward. I don't have a lot of faith in them I'm afraid. 

My Dad died of Sepsis after numerous failed Dr visits, he had a heart attack due to the Sepsis. He was a man that believed in the medical profession and that makes me so sad, cause how wrong he was. They are like us all they can make mistakes but unfortunately they won't admit to it. 

Best Wishes.

peterawake and lesleyhelen, just dreadful, I have no words for what has happened to you. Xx

Hi peterawake

Yes you are right that the older generation have so much faith in the medical profession and hospitals. I'm so sorry you went through the same awful experience with your Dad.

I  had the same faith too until I read Mum's notes.  The 'care' was absolutely useless!  Just one example on the day she stopped breathing and her heart stopped - the previous day (a Saturday), I'd kicked up such a fuss about her condition that I got to speak to the junior doctor.  I was so worried about her and especially the fact that I'd had to get water for her table and then that it took me 20 minutes to get a tiny bit down her as she was so 'out of it'.  He wrote on her notes "wake her up to drink" - doh!!! didn't he medically wonder why she wasn't even awake enough to drink???? He kept telling me she was doing well, her vitals were good and she's just recovering, that was why she was sleepy.  Overnight they'd had written on her notes that some other important procedure that should have been carried out hadn't been done "because of demands from other patients" and that she'd been unable to take a tablet she was supposed to have because "unable to swallow" so clearly not being woken up to drink then!  In the morning she tried to pick up the cup of tea poured for her, she failed to pick it up and it burnt her arm.  They dressed her wound.  She then was found to not be be able to detect oxygen levels on their normal checks and her pulse was extremely slow, so they gave her some oxygen and that was it. No doctor called or even spoken to despite all these issues.   3 hours later another patient raised the alarm to the nursing staff because she "didn't look right" and the crash team had to resuscitate her.    Her notes actually had "ate breakfast" "ate dinner" fluids - 1L.   It is so obvious that they must have been lying on the notes and they were just writing whatever the hell they pleased.  No way was someone who couldn't swallow or breath eat a hearty breakfast and dinner and drink a litre jug of water...  When my Dad was ill after Mum's death (I had health and welfare POA for him) - I spent most of my day in and out of the hospital when I wasn't in work.  I fed him and gave him fluids at each and every meal.  I was such a nuisance that I was given a daily meeting with his doctor until the day he was discharged!

Anyway, all the above aside:  Back to legal action - yes, it was awful going through her notes - you can imagine the tears I shed reading some of this stuff/ the extra pressure of the case etc to be told "you won't win" By the time it was all over I was almost relieved that I wouldn't have to carry on for however long it would take in the courts.  I had done it to get an apology and because of what it had done to my Dad - he lost his home and his wife.  I never told my Dad that the hospital were responsible for her death naturally, but by the time the 'case was closed' he had died and part of my motivation for pursuing had gone with his passing.

However, I felt as if it was cathartic (in some ways) knowing that I'd done my utmost to get justice for my Mum. 

The actual time frame was 3 years and 3 months as my solicitor said there was an extension of 3 months to file the papers with court and we used that extension to the day.  (it was to her date of death). So, maybe you don't need to make that decision straight away?  You will obviously need the paperwork.  I paid £50 to get all my Mum's notes photocopied by them from April - June.  I also asked for notes at the doctors and they obviously panicked as they booked an appointment with the senior partner to discuss why!  I also obtained phone tapes of the NHS 111 calls Mum and I made. 

So, you could get your records and peruse / put them to the side until you actually decide whether to go ahead or not.  Now might not be the right time mentally for you to pursue it, but in a year or so maybe?

You'll maybe need to check with the time frame whether it's from your first appointment or from the moment you were actually diagnosed.  I would assume from the actual diagnosis would make the most sense.  After the 3 years (and extension of 3 months) a case can't be taken out against them.

Be prepared that although for you it is about getting them to admit they made mistakes, your solicitor has to be guided by financials.  They will be going on about what financial impact this has had on you.  What costs - eg petrol, bus costs to hospital/new underwear you've bought because of it/ time off work etc and that will have to be complied by you. Emotional cost is harder to quantify as a financial obviously , but It felt to me at times that all it was about was the money for him, but for me all I wanted was that acknowledgement of their errors and that Mum's death wasn't in vain if they learned from their mistakes.  (After we had to call it a day my solicitor said that his Mum had died and he believed due to hospital errors - he was a naval officer then - and he wished he'd had my tenacity to do as much as I'd done to try and right the wrong and I couldn't have done any more for her - so although I thought he was money, money, money orientated he actually was just focusing on the case as that it what his job is, but his words meant the world to me).

He did also say that I might not even get the apology even if we'd had a 'strong enough case'  They quite often settle out of court with a non admission of guilt.  BUT you will know that if there's a settlement out of court - they are saying they are guilty and mentally that is good enough isn't it?

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best and if you do decide to go ahead I naturally would be very interested to hear how you do.

Edit: forgot to add - check your credit cards/ home insurance to see if you have legal cover insurance on them.  I didn't and although the solicitor was no win/no fee - all the associated costs I paid for the barrister/other experts and the other company he used for copying notes/ court fees etc (this was the deal I signed for and agreed upfront, so it may be different with a different solicitor) wasn't free. Legal cover insurance would have covered this if I'd had it.  I paid about £2000 for the extra costs and I dread to think of the cost if my solicitor hadn't been no win/no fee!  But they won't take on your case if they don't think they will win because of how much it will cost them, so by going through your medical notes first and showing your case to the solicitors will give you a good indication.  If my Mum had died immediately on the ward, rather than going to ICU he says we would have won, it was just the fact that we couldn't prove 100% that something else wasn't responsible for her death in the 3 days following. 

Kindest wishes,

Hi lesleyhelen,

Oh my goodness I do feel for you, it is an awful situation you and your parent's went through, you did so well to pursue the case with all the anxiety that must have gone with it, but I think you were probably driven by the sheer injustice of your Mum not receiving the treatment she so deserved. They can be so adamant that they are right, and lets face it we know our parents much better than they do and ourselves and our own bodies better than they do. 

I wanted my Mum to pursue a case but she wouldn't and said but it won't bring your Dad back, and honestly his care was a mess backwards and forwards to the GP and them sending him away, and then he was seen by 3 Consultants in Hospital and while they were making decisions about what treatment to give he had his heart attack and died not long after. A total disgrace. 

Quite honestly, it can be a fiasco with some of the medical profession, and some of my appointments have been of that nature, they just haven't listened to me, plus I'm annoyed with myself for not being more pushy with them. 

I worked as a Social Worker with Children with Disabilities and some of the children had very profound disabilities needing round the clock care, mostly due to negligence at birth, the parents/Solicitors of triplets were still fighting the NHS for compensation when the children were 6 years old! 

I doubt I will take the case forward even though I'd like too as I feel so annoyed and based on the Clinical Expert feeling I had a case, but will the stress of it be worth it, like you say the Solicitors will be looking at financial gain, as they have to if they are running a Law firm. My household Insurance covers Medical Negligence so I would be using that. I don't know how much I would need to be involved, or whether the Solicitor would do most of it??  I doubt I could get myself to involved as the stress may well trigger some other health issue and that's my biggest concern. I worry enough now about it either lurking somewhere or coming back. Plus, husband has Parkinsons and recently diagnosed with Bladder Cancer, he's just started his treatment, so have lots going on!

I do thank you for your very detailed replies as they have given me an insight into what I would be up against! 

Best Wishes. 

hi all

my tuppence worth is that in my case I was advised that my outcomes were 'unchanged' and it was that deciding factor which would be what a court would rule on.

I had my first annual mammogram in 2012, I'd had several before because I was deemed 'high risk' because of dense breast tissue but that didn't appear on the notes to the routine team and somehow I was reported as 'clear'.

In 2015 I eventually booked a private screening because the GPs kept saying my non specific symptoms were just age and hormone related.

At that appointment the radiologist showed me the scans from 2012 alongside the ones he'd just reviewed and it was obvious there was a tumour in the 2012 scans. 

The legal team said that routine screening is a safety net and if it catches a few extra cases it's a success but it can't be held up in a court of law as a failure if it doesn't. No case to answer. 

Next I was referred to the Royal Marsden in London for surgery as our local hospital doesn't have specialist reconstruction surgeons. 

The MRI was reported by the private radiologist and the Marsden NHS team.  Private guy spotted a 2nd suspicious area, NHS Marsden did not. Whilst waiting for surgery the suspicious area popped up as a painful lump, no avoiding that as a classic symptom.

Despite me pointing it out the surgeon followed NHS Marsden report and cut neatly around 2nd tumour leaving it in situ. 

Nobody believed me when I said that the lump was still there. I had to elevate the complaint to the PALS team. 

I did get an apology ... eventually ... but again the outcome was deemed to be not critically affected. 

If I'd died as a result of their fuck up my family might have got compensation but I didn't die, I'm still here. 

no case to answer.

There was a fundamental phrase they used which I can't remember but it was about outcomes, if you're still alive they did their job, however badly. 

It's taken me years to get over this whole fiasco and if I'm honest I'm not over it yet. But I'm working on it. 

I know it's affected me and I know that I do need to 'let it go'.

I read somewhere, probably facebook, that if someone stole £10 you wouldn't waste £100k trying to get the £10 back, would you?

Time is the same, if someone wastes 10 minutes of your day, don't waste 10 hours trying to retaliate or resolve it. It's not worth it. 

the surgeon tasked with repairing me, after the dim wit surgeon failed miserably, was a lovely guy, kind, considerate, professional 

he has to perform 8 surgeries each day

that's massive

it's a monumental task and I cannot in my wildest imagination comprehend how he does it

I also remember that when I came round after the first surgery that a nurse came into the recovery room and said something, what's the gossip, she'd heard something had happened in theatre and the nurse near me indicated 'shhh'  in other words I was awake and could hear

I know I will never know what happened in the theatre that day, nobody will break the code of silence.

I was in shock for months, the next six months I was undergoing chemo in any case, but as I slowly reentered the real world it was in a post traumatic state. 

by the time I got around to calling Irwin Mitchel, the kings of the medical claim, they said it was too late to take on a complicated case but that 'it was down to outcomes' and I was unlikely to convince a court I'd been adversely affected because I would always have had to have chemo in any case and I'm still alive, the cancer hadn't progressed to stage 4 or incurable because of their negligence. 

I also think stress was a factor in my breast cancer, my daughter keeps saying "don't get worked up about stuff' you don't want to get ill again. 

life is precious and I need to spend as much time on the beach as possible  

Carolyn

xx

Owww I can't add much to what as already been said.  I'll try and keep this short as you all know I waffle.  My dear Dad, God Bless his Soul, we didn't know he was very poorly until going to an out patient appointment to see why he was having some strange type of turns.  (Out Patient appointment was at the Royal Free in London.... we are Birmingham based).  Whilst waiting for this appointment due to concerns I was speaking with my dads GP, dads GP said 'listen, your dad is fine, if I thought he was ill I would have him in hospital straight away!' This of course gave me hope and of course 'we trust what we are told'.  (I had googled all dads symptoms and come up with Dads diagnosis, although always hoping and praying I was wrong, hence us asking for referral to Royal Free, they are a centre of excellence for this)

Whilst at the Out Patient Appointment my dear Dad had one of these turns and was admitted there and then.  They diagnosed NET's (Neuroendorine Cancer), Dad was very poorly and went into a type of coma and was admitted into intensive care. Dad was in intensive care for, I think, for just under 2 weeks, then we spent another 10 weeks working with the hospital, each day Dad getting he went from the sickest person in that hospital to the 'well'est' (can't think of the right word), Dad needed to be transferred to a hospital near home to start on physiotherapy due to been in bed for over 12 weeks. (we had done very slight 'in bed' exercise's, with sitting on the edge of the bed with the physiotherapists - Dad had not progressed to fully out of the bed walking).  The last day of bed physio was on the Thursday, nothing on the Friday, Sat, Sun, Mon, .... Monday we were told a bed had become available at our local hospital (with a very bad reputation), I pleaded with them not to send us there, even saying what the outcome would be! Dad was transferred on the Tuesday, off we went up the motorway, even called into the Services and got a Fast food burger, all this whilst dad was on a stretch/bed type of thing.

We get to our hospital Tuesday afternoon, Dad says to my other half (I don't hear this) I was born here, looks like I will die here.  We are checked in and they apologise they don't have a bed yet on the physiotherapy ward, however, would be moved there as soon as possible, but not to worry as they will do physio with dad on this ward.....

Mom stayed with Dad overnight, we had both done this every night in London, because we were 'home' I deliberated on staying or going home (even had words with OH over this), I went home!!!!! Hindsight!!  

Next morning two young Physios came to Dads bed said they were going to do some exercises and asked where dads slippers were - mom pointed to them and said 'he can't be got out of bed' he has not done this for over 12 weeks and he has not had physio for 5 days, (because of this Dad would need going back a few steps to strengthen and start again).  They said fine they understood and suggested mom go and get a coffee - Mom trusted them and did as they asked.........

Around 10 minutes later Mom went back in, Dad was 'standing' in a walking frame, holding on for his life, he cried out to my mom to help him back into bed.... Mom did this shouting for help, a nurse comes in and tells mom she is over-reacting and panicking - mom said dad was wringing wet with sweat, the nurse was saying we will put you in the chair, Dad was such a polite, gentleman and would not offend anyone, asked to be put into bed, she said no in the chair.... Mom said 'he wants to get on the bed' so they did this ..... at this point the two Physios came back in and asked what was going on.... Mom said, I told you my husband should not be out of bed, you have done this and left him!! they said they were around the corner, they should not of got Dad out of bed, they should not of left Dad.

This was at around 11:00 am ...... this stress on dads body caused him to have a 'carcinoid crisis' - they didn't know how to deal with this, I got to the hospital and Dad was still the same, sweating, shivering, very lower blood pressure ..... no doctors were available as they were in a meeting, a first year doctor/graduate (I can't remember what the title was something like FY1) I'm sorry but he hadn't a clue (and I can understand this, as it is a specialist situtaion).  I was telling him what to do (what I had learnt in London) Dad needed fluids and a medicine called Octreotide this would help Dads body.... there was no one apart from this FY1, I was there 'tapping my Dads had trying to get a vein, then I told them to use the vein in Dads leg, finally a more higher doctor came, he was listening to me, I told him about Dads blood pressure, 60/50 - they FY1 said the machine was broken (it wasn't this was the reading).

The Doctor said they thought Dad had a clot on lung (again can't think of correct name now), I tried to explain, London had told us if Dad's body was too stressed this could happen and what treatment he needed and hence why everything had to be done in a far slower pace.  Dad was still the same sweating, apologising to me for doing what the physios had asked him to, feeling sick (he was then sick), finally at 4:30 PM this Doctor arranged for Dad to go into Intensive Care.  We was not allowed in there at first, they 'wanted to settle dad in'....... 6:00 pm Dad was due medication, I was ringing and ringing the buzzer to go in there!!!! Finally, at 6:40 pm they came out, called us to a side room (you know when you just know what is coming), and said...... Mr. ****** is very poorly, we are doing all we can for him, if he doesn't pull though when I go back in there, we will have to let him go!!! (note the time).  This man is sitting with us, I am saying you should be in with my Dad then not here with us.  He went out and came back in and said Dad had gone!!

Dad had gone, the records stated time of going was 6:15 pm (can't remember exact time).  Dad had already gone when they said they was working on him.  This had to go to the Coroners Court because Dad was only at this hospital '1 day' and he had gone!!!. It took just over 12 months for the case to go to court, this wasn't for Dad or for us, this was for hospital numbers - was Dad well enough to be transferred, was the anything done medication wise, etc.

The Professor from London had to come up, he could not believe it, he was in shock, saying this wasn't how it was meant to be, so tragic.  Cause of passing (I can't say the right word still), was the Neuroendicne tumours spread in Liver.  

That is what they say took Dad, yet in my eyes if the physios hadn't triggered the crisis then Dad wouldn't of gone!!

Mom wanted to fight this, I did too for my Dad, but where would this take us.... the pain, the upset to go through so much, never getting Dad back, the stress - I am sure they would of said it was the tumours that took Dad, which yes - but the circumstances that led to the overload on Dads body would surly come into this.  We didn't fight this, I know they would of said about Dads illness taking him, not the circumstances that triggered Dads body going into crisis, not having the correct medication given (it was there), not having the doctors there, I am sure they would of had answers for all this and finally said 'it was the illness that took him'.

It's horrible because, just on here we are seeing 'so many wrongs' and so many wrongs not been brought to light, so many people not taking responsibility for what they have done.

Owww and the nurse that wouldn't listen to my Mom, saying Mom was panicking...... I went straight into her and said.... **** , you know you said my Mom was over-reacting and panicking, well you know what... My Dad is dead now!! (she was shocked, but, they need to listen to people, each of us is different, we all react and behave in different ways - they need to be open minded to every question and cry for help.

So, as Carolyn28 says, you may spend more time and heartache chasing this up and come out with nothing at the end.  However, we could also say, if none of us step forward they keep getting away with it.  The trouble is, I think the only time anyone stands a chance is when it is done on a large scale involving lots of patients - when its one, its one against a whole massive authority.

Mom couldn't of taken this up with the authorities, it would of being me, the guilt I felt for not doing it was excruciating, my Dad was my world and not fighting felt like betrayal to my Dad.....  however, I was broken, mentally and physically broken, 12 weeks day and night with Dad getting him ready to be coming home, we get back and I leave him for one night and he was taken - if I had stayed at the hospital, I would of been there, I would of told the Physiotherapist 'not to get Dad out of bed' - it could of all been so different!! 

So for all my guilt, I should of fought, I should of ..... I also know we would not of 'won' - we wouldn't get Dad back.  With a heavy heart, I drew a line under it, for many days, weeks, months and years the guilt of not fighting eat away inside, it was like 'I should of done this for Dad' - it drove me mad, but, as I have said 'it wouldn't get my Dad back.... believe me, if would it would, then it would of been totally different, I would of done everything and anything 

I know this won't help, but you can see so many different true life situations. 

You could ask Irwin Mitchel Solicitors their thoughts, of course there are lots of other solicitors that can be used.  Ask there advice, on a no win no fee basis, but always keep in mind 'how much stress you will be put yourself under, how much time it will take' if you can cope with this then carry on, however, just keep in mind 'they have good solicitors, its there job and they are getting paid, whereas for you, it is your time and your life - that you could spend doing other things. its a tough one

xxxxxxxx

What happened.....this is an awful tale , how distressing.....I hope you can get over the guilt , you did everything possible at the time really . I think it is true older people send to trust authorities without question , perhaps we need to be more proactive . 

I woke up this am to the news saying how low our “ survival “ rates still are .....how many years have the government promised to fix this ...? I remember Blair giving a speech on it 

best wishes today to everyone fighting to get care / treatment for themselves or a loved one , I hope we are listened to 

me x

Hi WhatHappened,

Horrendous, that our loved ones go through such negligence. I can quite understand where you are coming from when you say you spent years feeling guilt that you didn't fight the case, but its a hard fight that probably lots don't win. The NHS rarely holds its hand up to its mistakes, I agree with you if there any many people together fighting negligence then it is easier as they cannot not accept they were wrong.

I have spoken to Irwin Mitchell and they have had some of the letters I wrote to the NHS and the responses I received back, they then put the info to a Breast Medical Expert and he said from the initial information he has there is a case.  Not only did my GP not refer me after me seeing him several times but I had extremely dense breast tissue and microcalcifications dating back to 2011 and they did watch and wait, which obviously didn't pay off.  I could scream sometimes because I never looked into microcalcs or breast density until I was diagnosed, I trusted in them. My last Mammogram prior to diagnosis was end of October, I had a lump early December but because of the recent Mammogram GP said "you've just had a mammogram and I cant feel a lump", he was so reassuring. The Breast Consultant told me a 5CM mass would have grown within a few months but the Macmillan helpline have told me Hormone related tumours take years to get to that size, who knows. He also said "Your case is unusual, its an anomaly". 

The outcome cant' be changed now, unfortunately.  Like you say I could be doing other things other than chasing a case, it is a tough one, on the one hand you want justice but on the other am I going to get it, if I lost it's something else to deal with.