What next after unsuccessful BCG?

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My  89 year old mum was diagnosed with bladder cancer (CIS) just about 2 years ago.  After her TURBT she had an induction course of BCG which was considered to be a success.  Subsequently she’s had a least one maintenance course and to be honest I’ve always felt that the hospital missed a round that she should have had which maybe would have helped with where we find ourselves now.  The cytoscopy she had in November showed a recurrence and in January/February she had a further induction course of BCG.  Enter Covid and the postponement of her next cytoscopy.  She finally had this in July with the result that she doesn’t seem to have responded to the BCG.  The consultant therefore wants to withdraw her from further BCG treatments and I guess understandably doesn’t think she’s a candidate for bladder removal.  His proposal is therefore just to wait and see what happens next and her treat her palliatively as and when!  My siblings and I think that’s a really bad idea and have arranged a private consultation with a specialist urology clinic.  I’ve tried to research options re chemotherapy/radiation/Chemoradiation and obviously hope something might be appropriate but I believe these are not so successful with CIS. I know it’s also possible to have a second TURBT.  If she was able to have that, would more BCG be possible or just not an option because of previous failure? I wondered whether anyone has any experience of treatment after a recurrence which they might be able to share with me before we see the specialist.  

Apologies for the long post.  My brother and sister and I do rather feel our mum’s been fobbed off. There’s no lymph node involvement presently and it seems crazy to just leave things to a scan in 6 months when you can only imagine what could have happened by then. 

thanks so much. 

  • Hi Caddie2011, I can appreciate how anxious you and your family are feeling. I had my diagnosis in 2017 and since then have had 2 reoccurrences but because these have been a low-ish grade (and not CIS) my BCG has been continued. However there is lots of concern ref the side effects from the treatment particularly BCG cystitis which can make life miserable. I get the impression the medics are always weighing up quality of  life versus treatment risks. If your mum has had two lots of induction (12 doses?)  I think I can understand why the docs feel BCG isn't doing the trick. Sounds like you've organised a second opinion so hope this doc can offer another treatment suggestion. There are many different treatments available so fingers crossed. x

  • Hello . Sorry to hear about your mum and that BCG has not been as successful as hoped. Bladder removal is a huge operation and it sounds as though mum may not be fit enough for it. Chemoradiation is not usually suitable for CIS as radiotherapy needs a suitable target, but CIS is usually too so spread out like a rash. Many people have recurrent TURBTs to keep removing further growths with ongoing BCG. If BCG has been unsuccessful, then some people have been put on Mitomycin treatment. This is administered in the same way as BCG. It is a chemotherapy treatment rather than an immunotherapy treatment which BCG is. People have had success with this change. Mum is always entitled to have a second opinion if you are in the UK. Best wishes.

    Best wishes to All,   rily.

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  • Hi Caddie2011 IMHO too right do not be fobbed off. My husband is one of those mentioned by Rily who has been switched to Mitomycin after BCG and recurrences. He has had several TURBTs and has been clear for six months now, and if I remember the letters rightly had CIS as well as papillomas. I know he said on the first cystoscopy his bladder looked completely like an inside out cauliflower and they got it clear. He is now 76 so not as old as your Mum but no spring chicken.

    Best wishes with your private opinion, it is so sad that our once totally prized NHS is now in some parts offering so little to some patients. I have just opted against all my principles for private dentistry just to get what I medically need, with an NHS dentist in the family endorsing the wisdom of this.

    Denby

  • Thanks everyone for your help and so pleased to hear Denby that the mytomicin has worked well for your husband.  Absolutely agree that quality of life is extremely important in considering treatments and I honestly don’t believe an RC is a suitable option for her.  Just hope we can find something else between that and do nothing although I know CIS is more challenging.  Hoping at least another TURBT might be viable.  Consultation is tomorrow so will know soon.  The NHS is generally wonderful and it’s already saved my life after my own cancer experience and I know Covid has had a dramatic impact but have to at least be sure we explored all the options.