Bad place - immunotherapy advice

FormerMember
FormerMember
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Not in a good place right now.  Mix of emotions, anger, grief followed by numbness, trying to focus on caring and keeping the house running.

Some back story - my wife was diagnosed with bladder cancer nearly a year ago.  She opted for chemotherapy (gemcitabine and cysplatin) and had a partial response.  She was on 15 day cycle, but could never manage day 8 as she was too sick or they couldn't get the cannula in to  deliver the drugs (this has been a recurring issue).

After that she was offered "salvage surgery" which would not only remove the bladder but a whole load of other things, and leave her with a stoma for life, even if it was the "gold standard".  She was still in shock and couldn't face that future.  The alternative that she opted for was radical radiotherapy, six weeks of driving to hospital every day as the world fell under the shadow of coronavirus.  And pain and exhaustion towards the end, and for weeks afterwards.

She had her 50th birthday on VE day weekend, we couldn't do the holiday we had planned so we made up a big cream tea ourselves and tried to make the best of it.

In July she had a cystoscopy and initial prognosis was good - no signs of the cancer, just necrotic tissue  But she never felt like she was getting back on track. One Saturday afternoon she was in agony with urine retention, ending up in A&E needing a catheter.  It got removed, then there were continence issues with nights and nights of lost sleep, buying packs and packs of pads.  And she has continued to lose weight.

Finally got GP to take notice after consultant asked for blood tests that showed poor kidney function and her haemoglobin levels were very low.  Ended up in A&E again last Tuesday, where she has been until Thursday.  She had to have blood transfusion and CT scans over the weekend which show the cancer escaped and spread to two lymph nodes.  These have grown and were blocking the ureters.  On Monday she still seemed quite bright, but they had to put tubes in her back to fit stents internally and nephrostomy bags, and she has been in a world of pain ever since.  They were supposed to use local anaesthetic but she could feel everything.  She said she was crying and screaming but they continued anyway.

Surgery to remove the lymph nodes is apparently not a viable option, too big, too complex and for little benefit.  

Sorry for the long post, I think there is a lot that has been pent up for too long trying to be brave and supportive.

Thankfully the nephrostomy bags have been removed and we got her home Thursday night.  She is exhausted and doesn't feel she has much fight left.  And the family are devastated and heartbroken.

All they are offering now is chemotherapy or immunotherapy. The former is right out, she has had enough of being stabbed, prodded and poked.  Does anyone have any experience or advice about how effective the immunotherapy can be in slowing progress at this late stage?  And what side effects there might be?

  • Hi Kamiro and welcome , although sorry to hear what a tough time your wife has had, and of course it affects you as well. There are two main types of immunotherapy for bladder cancer. The most common is BCG treatment which is a vaccine instilled  intravestically straight in to the bladder, but this would not have any effect on lymph nodes. The other is a much more recent treatment where drugs such as Keytruda are administered intravenously in to the blood stream. There is little experience of this here, but hopefully someone may be along who have had this. As regards needles, your wife may like to ask about a PICC line. This is a semi permanent canula which stays in the arm and does away with constant needles. I had one for several months and did not have a problem with it. Best wishes.

    Best wishes to All,   rily.

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  • FormerMember
    FormerMember

    Sorry too to hear of the troubles you and your wife have had. I can't offer any advice, except to say that I will be thinking of you both. All the very best.

  • Hi, like Gandulf I don't have advice about immunotherapy in your wife's situation. Likewise want to let you know of my caring thoughts.

    Two possibly useful ideas. 1 Should more needles esp cannulas be needed. I used to know a diabetic lady who had a lot of trouble like this. She used to go equipped with a large clean washing up bowl and a bottle of essential oil of ginger. Nurses had to part fill the bowl with warm/hot water and she would add 3 drops of the ginger oil. It is strong stuff and should be treated with caution apparently. Then she would immerse her arm in the bowl for a good while. The combined effect of warm/hot water and ginger would bring up her veins sufficiently to allow decent insertion of the cannula. Less bother, according to one of our practice nurses another patient comes with a hot water bottle clutched to her arm which does the trick for blood tests.

    The other thing is that for both your sakes, if you haven't already, please sign up with your local Carers' Association. [Search your county name carers' association]. What they offer around the country does vary, but many have NHS contract money for providing support. You are legally entitled to an assessment of your needs which can be done very easily and informally in my experience and I have found quite a lot of support through this. All carers are as you say trying to be brave and supportive, but you need outlets on the ground as well as us lot on the internet.

    Being anaemic does make you feel very low in all ways, and hopefully the blood transfusion will help with this - but personally I'd be making sure that they frequently check her haemoglobin levels are as high as they should be and not still on the low side. Also it takes a few days for the body to produce new blood cells to take the strain off and replace the few that there were while she was low, which were under extra strain, if that makes sense. So I do hope she'll feel stronger in a few days. 

    Could be worth calling the MacMillan helpline for advice on both the psychological side for your wife and yourself, and ways to help her deal with the forthcoming treatment, eg needles etc. There's a carers forum too, though I've never been on it myself so can't say what it's like.

    Kind regards, Denby

  • Hi Kamiro, So very sorry to hear about the rotten experiences your wife has had and the distress you and your family are suffering. Such a frightening time. Some folk speak very positively about Keytruda so I hope this can offer some hope. Sending love xx

  • FormerMember
    FormerMember in reply to Herothedog

    Thanks Herothedog, and everyone else who has come back to me.

    We had a phone call from the oncology consultant today which has pretty much snuffed out all hope.

    He said that because of the condition of her blood results, he would not be proposing any further treatment, it would only make things worse for her.  He said it was more important that she was made comfortable.

    No contact yet from the hospice, the hospital said they would refer us on Thursday last week, but I guess we have just had a bank holiday which could be a busier time for them than usual.

    I think I am still in shock, my brain is working on two speeds.  I feel bereaved though she isn't gone yet, and the worst is still to come.

  • I am sure you must be in shock from the consultant's advice. There are no worse messages and so terribly hard to absorb. My heart goes out to you. I believe that palliative care services in the UK, like Macmillan, Marie Curie and Hospicecare are generally wonderful and can do a great deal to support both patients and families. They understand this is precious time for you.  I hope someone will be in touch very soon. xxx

  • FormerMember
    FormerMember in reply to FormerMember

    That is mind-blowing news to comprehend. You are both in our thoughts. Hospice care is so affirming and supportive from my experiences. I hope it will be the same for you. If you haven't heard, I would try a phone call to the hospice to see how things are progressing. 

  • Aww Kamiro i'm so sorry, ive no advise but didn't want to just scrol past. Thinking of you both xx

    Sue Xx
  • Hi Kamiro. Just to echo the above. Sorry to hear your news. Best wishes.

    Best wishes to All,   rily.

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  • I’m so sorry to hear this Kamiro.My thoughts are with you and your family.Jane x