Cancer cells in blood vessels?

Hi Nell!

I had exactly this diagnosis myself! The way it was explained to me is much as you have assumed, the cancer cells are in the bloodstream, so can be pumped around the body and land almost anywhere, where there is a small chance they may take root. However, things to keep in mind: they aren't living forever. Their actual lifespan is very short, relatively speaking, and the vast majority of cells won't actually get the chance to lodge anywhere. Most CTCs (Circulating Tumor Cells) will die long before they become able to cause any further harm. Out of thousands of cells, for example, a tiny number might live long enough to land anywhere. And bear in mind, the body will be deploying white blood cells to destroy them, too. As it was explained to me, the cells being there is bad luck, but it is a lot better than any in the lymph nodes, and the risks of further cancer as a result is very slight. However, they may want to do chemotherapy just to be on the safe side.

It isn't perfect, I know, and I am very sorry you both have to endure this for a little longer as a result of this, but CTCs are very treatable, and since they have spotted them, the medical people can definitely do something about that. To put this in context, I had the same diagnosis as your husband, and the same CTC issue, but my oncologist still estimates that my chance of getting to five years with no further cancer issues is over ninety per cent. And that is incredibly good, as things go. So yes, you need to get this looked at, but no, it does not mean a definite return of cancer. The oncologists will probably want to do some mopping up to be on the safe side, but the outlook is optimistic!

I hope that helps!

Robin.

Brilliant explanation Robin 

xxxx Annie.xxxx 

Hi Robin,

Thank you so much for your reply, your explanation was really informative and made things much clearer for us. The more I read the more confused I get as its easy to take stuff out of context when you don't have the full picture. In the back of my mind I wasn't surprised that there would be a need for more treatment but my husband had convinced himself that would be it the end of it as, at an early stage following his diagnosis, after scans etc, one oncologist said surgery would probably be curative and he probably (there's that word again!) wouldn't need chemo but before surgery and all the bells and whistles of pathology/histology etc they wouldn't be able to say for sure. My husband basically buried the whole thing until he woke up from surgery approx 8 weeks ago and has struggled at times during the recovery process etc. But as with your prognosis Robin, all concerned are very optimistic for the future and that's what we have to go on. It's really uplifting to hear from someone who started out with the same diagnosis and is doing so well and you sound like a really positive person in general which can only be a good thing. I have to say the knowledge and support on this site is massively helpful and a great resource for anyone going through this illness. All the very best to you Robin on your journey, I had a look at your story and I see you have a lot of other stuff on your plate too...again thanks for your great reply.

Michelle

Thanks Michelle! I am glad I was able to help. It's a rough road we're walking, but a little light to guide the way can always be found if you need it.

R.

Hi Robin. I hope you don't mind me joining this conversation, but I had a left hemicolectomy 3 weeks ago. The tumour removed was a common carcinoma, not aggressive, nor hereditary. 22 Lymph nodes removed showed no signs of cancer; however, the tumour itself detected a small area within with EMVI. I have been staged at 2. I met with the oncologist last Thursday, who went through the biopsy/ histology details with me. It was a very lengthy & comprehensive conversation to determine whether or not I needed chemo....& based on the results, she was emphatic that I do not need it. The stats. presented to me were 82% survival rate over the next 5 years. If I were to have chemo, its' efficacy would only be 5%, which sounds far too low for me to consider...& so obviously, I was in accord with her. However, my daughter is still not convinced, having read up comprehensively on EMVI recently. According to her it's an apparently 'new' way of looking at cancer cells as a predictor.....so, she's presented me with a little niggling doubt. However, 5% does sound ridiculously low to even consider....particulary with the unpleasantness of the treatment; plus my Oncologist informs me that chemo. can also cause more serious health problems. Did you need chemo.?

With best wishes

Hi Marianne,

My case was similar, though not identical. While my lymph nodes were clear, they definitely found free floating cancer cells in my blood. I was staged at T3 as a result. My oncologist said that they believed I would definitely need chemotherapy to be absoutely sure of getting rid of the cells, but to bear in mind that this would only have a real-terms increase in my survival rate on paper of two per cent. Nonetheless, they wanted to be positive that those cells were gone.

The temptation to read up on something, and query the oncologists, is always there. Your daughter may have learned enough to question the oncologist's view, but in this case, i would say go with the oncologist's advice. Chemotherapy is not a walk in the park. It is a major upheaval of your entire body. It is downright nasty at the best of times, and if they believe you can get through this without it, then listen to them. They only put people onto chemotherapy if they are absolutely sure it is required. To put this in context, I started on the chemotherapy, but after two weeks, I was rushed into hospital as I was very seriously ill due to a reaction to the treatment. I was in hospital longer than I had been for the initial tumour removal operation! If your doctors believe that you can get through this without needing the chemotherapy, then I would consider that to be a very lucky escape.

Your daughter's concerns are, of course, perfectly valid. There's not a hundred per cent guarantee of escaping from EMVI. But eighty two per cent is definitely far better odds than the average, and five per cent increase is a very small amount, given the very intense impact chemotherapy would have upon you. The oncoligst knows what they are doing. If they think the chemotherapy is not worth risking for such a small benefit, they are likely right.

I hope it all works out for you!

Robin.

Thank you so much for your very encouraging & informative reply Robin!

Happy to help! I really hope things go well!