Stage 4 Lung Mets help :(

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Please forgive my very long post I have so many questions and simply don’t know where to turn.

My mum was diagnosed with rectal cancer approx. 2 years ago. Her diagnosis and treatment was delayed mostly because of covid for at least 6 months which I still can’t quite come to terms with. However they performed surgery and indicated they had removed the tumour with good clear margins. Unfortunately cells were found in 2 lymph nodes nearby and there was blood vessel involvement too. For this reason she went on to have ‘mop up’ chemo (folfox) for 3 months. She found this brutal and didn’t really have a life while undergoing the treatment but she ploughed on thinking it would be worth it to save her life and she would hopefully never have to have it again!

Fast forward to her 2 year CT scan and they found ‘2 small nodules’ that needed further investigation. Nearly a month later she had a PET scan which she then found out revealed ‘2 BIG’ growths they feel are cancerous and ‘lots of’ small ones they’re ‘not sure’ about. She was told chemo would be the next step and an appointment made with her oncologist.

We have done an awful lot of research looking into lung mets and were fairly hopeful that this could be managed, treated and kept under control with so many different options for treatment, reading so many positive stories from people fighting this awful disease.

When we met the oncologist the first thing he said was ‘do you want to delay treatment’ my mum asked why she would do that? His response ‘personal choice’ Rage she said she didn’t want to have chemo but if it meant living then she would! He was very softly spoken, lacking in any sort of empathy and mumbled all of the information. He mumbled something about immunotherapy not being an option. He told us she has 10 nodules in total scattered across both lungs. BUT he said they didn’t know if the smaller ones are even cancerous Shrug tone1‍♀️ I asked why the CT scan showed only 2 small nodules but the PET scan showed a different story and his reply was ‘it doesn’t matter’!! I asked if the chemo had a positive effect would she be eligible for surgery and he just shook his head, mumbled and moved on to the chemo drugs. He immediately suggested she go back to FOLFOX which was my mums biggest fear. We immediately tried to explain it was too hard for her to cope with. We listed some of the numerous debilitating side effects she had from it and the issues she is still left with and he responded with ‘all chemotherapy has side effects’ he then offered the alternative would be FOLFIRI and I quote ‘more diarrhoea less issues with cold temperatures’ he didn’t discuss ANY other options or offer advice on how these things can be managed which we KNOW from our own research is possible.

There were many things we didn’t ask as quite frankly we were all in shock (my mum a very young 67, myself and my older brother. My brother and I are both in our 40’s and I’d say fairly intelligent! But we were treated and looked at like we were stupid for asking anything and completely shut down).

We have since found out my mums key worker (who hasn’t been much support either) was supposed to attend the meeting but was delayed. We have also spoken to macmillan who have provided us with contacts and phone numbers that we weren’t ever aware were available. We have done all of this ourselves at no point have we been offered support or told where we can find it.

As we were told she could only have chemo I would like to know how accurate this is looking at other people’s experiences?

- How can we learn more about immunotherapy options?
- Are ablation, radiotherapy, or targeted treatments viable options?
- Should a biopsy be done to confirm the nature of the smaller nodules?
- Is surgery an option for my mum's case? Or even further down the line?
- How can we seek a second opinion and find lung metastases specialists in the UK?

If you’ve read this far I’m so grateful and any advice would be so very welcome Heart

  • Hi,

    I suppose I’m in a similar situation. You can click on my profile for the very start of my journey. 
    I Was diagnosed with stage 4 bowel cancer last August, I’ve had no treatment since my diagnosis apart from 5 days radiotherapy to ease hip symptoms. I’ve been told it’s inoperable and not curable. I have one larger nodule in my lung with roughly 15 between both lungs at the last count, pelvic tumour and enlarged lymp node nodes in my abdominal just outside my bowel. I thought I would be offered chemo right away but wasn’t. The oncologist explained this decision was based upon quality of life as my symptoms were minimal at that point. I start chemo beginning of June all going well. 

    Cath

  • Hi  

    Your mum is the same age my mum was when we found out she had a spread from a bowel tumour . I was awash with questions too and just my own opinion but I think that’s a good thing as it helps understand the process and the options .

    Firstly most oncologist recommend chemotherapy initially and that’s a good thing . They like to gain stability over the disease and hopefully some shrinkage . Not just on the visible disease but the invisible microdisease . 
    My mum too was rough on the same combination but she did go back on it a second year but at a lower dose which turned it into manageable for her . Getting the right tolerance is really important as it’s more of a marathon than a sprint in a stage four setting . It needs to balance out quality of life too . In our family today matters just as much as the future tomorrow’s.

    The oncologist have a tricky job making sure they get the maximum use out of each chemotherapy option as there are only so many in the bag . That’s not to say you will not see people on the boards using the one chemotherapy for literally five and six years but others may get less time out of it and have to move onto the second or third line . That normally happens if the disease is seen to progress on the scans or the patient can’t tolerate a particular combination .

    The cell type determines if immunotherapy is an option as it has to have mutations like microsatellite instability etc . I will try and link in more information on this tomorrow as they will explain it much better . She may be suitable for targeted drugs like Cetuximab if she has the correct cell type . I can link that in but there is guidelines on what combinations it can be used with so even if it’s not right away it might be in the future treatment plan . 

    After so many cycles ( my mum ‘s is always six ) they get scanned and the scan is sent back to the mdt meeting for review . If they can add in further options they generally do . However we have people on the boards who have had other options opened up through a second opinion. This can be organised through your actual oncologist or your mum’s GP . You can generally get a feel on the boards where the specialist work .

    To put this in context chemotherapy turned inoperable to operable for my mum twice . She also has had surgery for a lung met . Five years after the surgery she has a recurrence in her lung and mediastinal Lymph nodes . They have done a wonderful job managing her as she is now heading towards her 81 st birthday and just gone on a biological agent which is easier on her . 
    She has had long periods of being disease free and lots of treatment too as her team saw fit .

    Her first oncologist was a bit of a surprise too on the delivery of information front but the current one is very good . It’s normally the junior drs or nurses who manage the routine visits so once you get over that it does become easier .

    I will get some more information for you tomorrow when I get a chance .

    She sounds in good shape going into this and that’s important. You are only ever a statistic of one . And that’s where I see the Hope .

    Take care ,

    Court 

    Helpline Number 0808 808 0000

  • Info on bowel cancer mutations and what chemo is best . 
    www.cancerresearchuk.org/.../tests-on-your-bowel-cancer-cells

    Helpline Number 0808 808 0000

  • https://bowelcancerorguk.s3.amazonaws.com/Publications/TreatingAdvancedBowelCancer_BowelCancerUK.pdf
    This covers the different approach in treating bowel cancer that has spread .

    Take care ,

    Court

    Helpline Number 0808 808 0000

  • Hi Cath, thank you for your reply Heart️ you replied on one of my earlier threads (I posted before we had the meeting with the oncologist) I’m so sorry your cancer returned after so long what a blow for you Pensive I am driving myself mad researching and going around in circles with treatment options. I feel that our oncologist didn’t explain anything and knowing there are so many different variations and options for treatment I think I’m just very stubborn and won’t stop until I get more answers. I think if it was for myself I probably wouldn’t do it but my mum is sometimes so easy to just give in and go with the ‘easy’ option I can’t let her do that, not this time Heart I hope your treatment is kind to you and you manage any side effects Pray tone1 ️sending lots of love and strength to you Heart

  • I read this the other day but haven’t had a moment to properly sit down and reply to you. You have also replied on another one of my threads (before we had the appointment with the oncologist). Your support, advice and the hope you give is just amazing Heart️ your mum sounds like an absolute warrior Muscle tone1 I will read through your other links and try and arm myself with as much knowledge as possible. We are waiting to be given an appointment with a different oncologist within the same trust currently. We did agree to go ahead with the chemo and don’t want to delay but we do not want to stay under the care of the current oncologist. I’m also looking into the options of a 2nd opinion with Christie’s (I believe Manchester) as it’s the closest specialist centre to us) but I’m unsure as to when it would be most beneficial to have that opinion…after the first round of chemo and scans or now before anything has happened Thinking  

    Again thank you so much - I’m off to look through your links!