Surgery as standard combined with Chemo and radiation

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  • Hi
  • I am a stage 4 rectal cancer subject . Rectal cancer spread to liver and lymph nodes with the added twist of a KRAS g12f mutation.The primary is inoperable Currently due to size
  • . Currently approaching capox #4 cycle. what i would like to know is the % percentage of patients who are in my position and who are offered a mix and match of therapies.
  • Presently only being offered Chemo and my Oncologist is ducking and diving on the other 2 therapies. 
  • I am on a trial and have been randomised into the passive arm that only receives Chemo.
  • The active arm where I hoped to be uses a complex Web of maximum debulking strategies. The aim of the trial is to extend survival rates by 50 percent plus.
  • I gambled and lost ..being allocated to the Chemo wing.
  • Hence i intend to leave the Trial but don't expect the Oncologist to reverse direction. 
  • Thus I will probably seek a 2nd opinion from the Department with the aim of securing combination therapies..
  • It seems to me that if its a solely Chemo route I'll reach unacceptable toxicity prior to resolving any of the three issues....Primary and 2 mets.

So how common is surgical removal of lymph nodes ? How common are liver resections?

They seem standard to me. What's the point of Radiology or Surgery otherwise? I also would like a feel for the % of serious adverse incidence on both lymph node removal and liver resection. 

Hopefully someone out there in this Community has a feel for the stats. 

  • Sending ((hugs)) , perhaps  may be able to help?

  • Hi 

    My mum has had two liver resections . I am unsure of the actual stats as it’s so complex in terms of spread . 
    I am also unsure the situation regarding the position of the lymph nodes removed . If you know the location of the affected nodes you might be better placed to see if it’s a branch that can be surgically removed by having a look at the research . 
    However what we did find beneficial is having a surgical consult at a centre of excellence for the liver . There are around seven in the U.K. and you can tell where they are by a quick Google search as they are the same units / surgeons that do the liver transplants . I found each specialty is best placed to know what they can or can’t achieve . I assume of the lymph nodes are near the liver they may also be able to tell you more about them . Some surgeons do more complex surgery as well so who you consult with matters .

    To give you a bit of insight into what her team achieved . She had a spread from segment four through to eight in her liver which was described as significant and I think one was measuring 5 cm . She had an amazing response to chemo and became operable . Quite recurrence after liver surgery so back to chemo . Again responded and four 1 cm tumours shrank away . This time referred to a centre of excellence where they were able to remove 73% of her liver . At this point our need to know significantly diminished. All we knew post op they found what they expected to find “cancer “ . The other aspects of the extent of the spread or other issues passed us by and recovery took over .

    She may well have had other lymph nodes removed but we never asked .

    You are entitled to a second opinion . Even if it’s to clarify you are on the right pathway it can be very beneficial.

    You can also read up on the Nice guidelines as they have guidelines for practice for each aspect of colorectal cancer .

    Take care ,

    Court 

    Helpline Number 0808 808 0000

  • Court

    Thanks for that.

    Glad your mother managed to escape doom and live.

    Actually I'm at UCLH in London so resources are not a problem.  Just got to dump the Trial as its inimical to my interests and persuade the Professor to change gear. I'll try not to be too oleagenous but I don't hold out much hope as I'm not sure I'd he has a reverse gear.

    Scans show my entire pelvis and groin etc to be on fire..it looks like a gas ring. So the whole lot is infected. 

    I'll check put the NICE stuff . Sounds like a good lead.

    Many thanks and I'd like to send best wishes to your Mother

  • The name that comes up a lot on forums is Mr Murphy. He does the hipec surgery and seems to do a fair bit of debulking surgery . A lot of people have found him to be responsive to evaluating their scans quickly . I have no direct experience as I live in Scotland but that’s the name that people seem to refer to on forums and have sought second opinions from if that interests you . 

    https://drjamiemurphy.co.uk/hipec/
    Think it is actually his private leaflet but he does it through the NHS too . 
    My mum had a surgeon who was very keen for her to go on a research arm . She has participated before when it was compatible and is infact doing some now . However this one we felt was not the best clinical route for her as it was more watch and wait whilst she was actually operable for the first time . It required some strong self advocacy! However she was correct to seek a different path at that juncture .

    Let us know how you get on . I can completely see why you want the most powerful and effective approach at this point .

    Take care ,

    Court 

    Helpline Number 0808 808 0000