New here and frustrated

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Hello all,

Thankful to have found this group! I am a 50 yr old wife and mom to 2 beautiful daughters 28 and 22 and live in Toronto.

This is not my first rodeo with a cancer diagnoses. 13 years ago I was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer and have been cancer free since the end of treatment so I do know things aren't always as bad as they seem when first diagnosed and there is hope Blush

This time around however I am angry and I am certainly fearful of the treatment such as radiation...not the treatment itself but the location. I know how painful it was on my breast, I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it being aimed on my bottom!!

I'm angry because I have been suffering with this since 2016 and my GP kept saying it was hemorrhoids and sent me to a surgeon who when I pointed out the tiny bump just on/in the verge of my anal canal waved her hand and said oh that's an std but I'll do hemorrhoid banding for your internal hemorrhoids...didn't even know they existed. Long story short, after that I still saw my GP for the same problem afterwards and was given hemorrhoid cream. Now it has spread to the outside as a patch almost completely around my anus and across towards my buttock and I think it has spread more inside as I am bleeding, have pain, and have an ulcer....the itching I have endured this many years is ridiculous. I feel partly to blame because I did not push and say no, something doesn't feel right until this past February.

With covid, all surgeries that are not necessary are being postponed and surgeons aren't taking new patients unless it is cancer...Hello? How do you know if it's cancer without a surgeon to order a biopsy? So I was sent to a dermatologist for a biopsy by my GP and the biopsy was taken from the furthest point away from where this started which came back as squamous cell carcinoma in situ. I guess I don't quite understand how a biopsy on my buttock can tell the story of what's going on just inside my anal canal from 2 inches away on non moist skin.  I have had a colonoscopy which was clear but not an anoscopy. I have had a CT scan which showed a 15mm lymph node in my abdomen above my belly button deep to the abdominal wall and am waiting to go for mri appointment next week.

I have a 60 min consult Wednesday with a Dr. who is a radiologist oncologist but as I said, I feel like I have not been looked at properly and I am frustrated....this is just all very different from how things are typically done in my experience...I've had tests before anyone has seriously looked and it all seems backwards to me.

I'm sorry for the rant but even the dermatologist did not look, if I had not gone in with a picture on my phone of my bottom to show him he would not have even seen it as he had a nurse do the biopsy. 

The dermatologists office forwarded me to the cancer clinic and the cancer clinic wrote them back saying you need to refer her to a surgeon but the dermatologist office thought they were no longer dealing with it and if I had not called the cancer clinic, at this point in time I would have fallen through the cracks. So now I'm going to speak to the radiologist oncologist for pre op...this makes no sense to me.

Is anyone going through this? Is this because of covid and the government deciding who and what is important?

When I had cancer before I never had to go through all this waiting and literally chasing down appointments and advocating so hard for myself...it's been 4 months now.

Thank you for taking the time to read this

Rayna

  • Hi   and welcome to the Group although I'm sorry that you've had the need to find us and that this is your second diagnosis of cancer. I see that you've said this started when you noticed a small bump just on/in the anal canal.  The biopsy was taken from the furthest point away from where this started which came back as squamous cell carcinoma in situ. Most anal cancers occur inside the anal canal and can grow up to the anal junction which is where the anus meets the rectum. Yours sounds like it began on or around the very end of the anal canal and then grew outwards on the anal  verge, which is the area of skin immediately outside the anus and onto the perianal skin which is the skin immediately after the anal verge. The anal margin measures about 2 inches which seems to be the region of your biopsy. You also say that it has grown into the anal canal.

    Unfortunately, the delay you suffered seems to be common in diagnosing anal cancer, we have had several people in this group who have had delays in their diagnosis. There seems to be a lack of understanding amongst the medical profession as to the signs and symptoms of anal cancer. Most anal cancers are squamous cell cancers. They do have a high treatment success rate which is reassuring.

    Hopefully, you  will  be discussing details of your treatment on Wednesday. I would also mention how you feel, that you do not think you have been looked at properly, it's very important to have faith and trust in your doctors. Your treatment  regime may differ slightly  than that in the UK. Here, we have 5.5 weeks of radiotherapy and chemotherapy, Monday-Friday.  

    In relation to chemotherapy, I had a one off short infusion of mitomycin administered intravenously on day one of treatment, followed by 8 tablets of capecitabine a day. The chemotherapy was fine, the only side effect I had was feeing nauseous from day 2 to 7 of chemo. The side effects of radiotherapy build up, I felt the effects from about week 4, which were diarrhoea and tiredness.  There are drugs to counter all side effects so try not worry too much about that.

    When treatment ends, the radiotherapy effects continue to build for 7-10 days.     You can get a sitz bath/bidet bowel, which is a special bowel filled with water that you can put in the toilet to relieve the pain of going. It's also important to moisturise from day one. Your radiologist can advise what creams to use but don't use any immediately before having radiotherapy.  I only had to take over the counter pain killers as I didn't have continuous pain. 

    Please come back on for advice as and when you need it. There's lots of people at different stages of treatment and we have a wealth of experience between us. Nothing is too personal to ask.   All the best, Bev 

  • Ps just to clarify, the perianal skin is also known as the anal margin. Bev 

  • Thank you so much Bev for your time and info!

    For breast cancer I went daily for 25 days Monday to Friday, chemotherapy was 6 times over 18 weeks, and 1 year of herceptin. I had 17 out of 24 auxillary lymph nodes positive. I was very tired and sore for quite some time but the herceptin for 1 year probably extended my side effects from the other treatments...worst part was my last chemotherapy treatment, I got home and fainted and broke my ankle and needed 9 pins and 2 plates put in.

    I know this started just inside my anal canal, it cannot be felt unless you just barely put a finger in. Now it feels as though it has spread at the same location depth but circumferentially, basically around half the inside like running along a track and of course out onto my butt cheek to near the butt crack about 2 inches. That's where the biopsy was done, on the edge of the growth furthest from where it started...Ha now I think about it, it would look like a purple butterfly wing coming out my anus lol. The part that is now visible was not there 2 years ago when my GP looked. In February she just about jumped back and was like oh you have a patch!! But never did a close up visual. When the dermatologist looked at my picture he thought it was paget's disease but that came back as a negative.

    I have many questions for the Doctor on Wednesday and many things to discuss, I have been working on my list to prepare.

    I'm glad I've not let this go this time, when I mentioned to my GP what the surgeon said in 2016 she said there was never anything mentioned in her correspondence about any std, she thought maybe it was a scar she was seeing from hemorrhoid banding and I said no, there was no cutting involved there!

    I had a cervical leep procedure done in 2000 for ain, precancerous cells due to hpv and my GP knew this, my paps have been clear since but she in my opinion should have been looking...I had no idea this could appear on your bottom, but shouldn't she have?

    I had 100% success with breast cancer treatment, excellent care, Doctors who were truly interested. Considering my medical history at this point, I feel pretty overlooked as a candidate for any kind of cancer recurrence.

    Thank you again! I will update when I know more info.

    Rayna

  • Thanks for your reply. I had cryosurgery many years ago for HPV related pre-cancerous cells on my cervix. My anal cancer was positive for HPV 16. I do think that all women who have had previously had cervical issues with HPV should have an anal Pap smear test regularly, it’s something that doesn’t happen in this country though. I agree that with your history your doctor should have looked into the lump in the anal canal immediately. Unfortunately not all doctors seem to be aware of the link between previous HPV issues and Anal cancer. 
    it’s a good idea to write a list of questions that’s what I did too. There’s so much to remember. Hope all goes well on Wednesday. Bev . 

  • FormerMember
    FormerMember

    Hi Rayna, 

    Welcome, and I’m sorry about your recent diagnosis. I’m newly diagnosed with anal cancer too. I also had breast cancer 6 years ago and I didn’t have any problems getting that diagnosis. I understand your frustration with being misdiagnosed with hemorrhoids. I was told for several months that I had hemorrhoids but the bleeding continued and I knew something else was going on. I also understand the frustration with getting the proper tests. My insurance company has refused to authorize a PET scan for the oncologist to stage the cancer. I’ve spent countless hours on the phone with the hospital and insurance company trying to get results. 
    This forum has been a godsend for me. I have found so much information here. I hope you get some answers when you have your appointment on Wednesday. 
    All the best,

    Meg

  • Thank you Meg and sorry for the troubles you are encountering and diagnoses as well! 

    I'm not sure where you live but fortunately here in Canada we have universal health care and I've never paid for anything. With covid I understand how things here have become so backed up...in my province of Ontario, we are 250,000 surgeries behind schedule...elective and non life threatening combined that Doctors will have to catch up on...even if they worked 7 days a week it will be some time. Only those who desperately need surgery will get it based on provincial criteria.

    It is amazing to me how many experiences others have had with misdiagnosis...I think it's a possibility that some people don't want to push a Doctor as we trust them to know what they are doing and don't want to sound like a hypochondriac or that we've already diagnosed ourself through Dr.Google...at least that's how I have felt at times.

    When I had to make phone calls to figure out who was handling my care, only to find out neither was, one of the wonderful ladies I spoke to said she was going to make a call and call me back. When she called back I had the appointment with the radiologist oncologist and she said she spoke with him and told him how anxious I was...um yeah lol. Honestly, I've found the squeaky wheel gets the grease and trying to be stoic and taking everything at face value can have you going in circles. As for the insurance I'd keep hounding them, a PET is not out of the ordinary...can you take it to someone higher up? I'm not familiar at all with medical insurance, I only pay for dental, prescription, vision, and disability through company benefits, everything else is covered through provincial health care.

    Crazy to have had breast cancer and now this!! I've had few good cries, I think to myself really? Again? Whyyyy?? Lol 

    I wish you luck on this journey and hope you get your test covered!! Thank you for sharing your story!! 

    Be well,

    Rayna 

  • Hi ,

    I’d also like to wish you a warm welcome to the online community although I’m sorry you find yourself here. 

    I’m 3 years out of treatment & have been on the forum since I was diagnosed & I’ve honestly lost count of how many people have come here that have been misdiagnosed, some like you for a long time, it infuriates me it really does!! As Bev has said the cure rate with anal cancer is good although obviously with any cancer diagnosis, as you’ll already know with your other brush with this disease, that the earlier this thing is diagnosed then the easier it’s treated. 

    It really sounds as though you’ve been pushed from pillar to post too, you must feel as though nobody wanted to take responsibility for this! The annoying part for me in misdiagnosis is that it’s always pushed home by Dr’s etc., that early diagnosis, especially with cancers, is key & then when you are body aware & flag something unusual early on you get fobbed off the way you have been. Having said all of that I was incredibly lucky right from the young locum GP that first referred me through to my local lower colon team (biopsy & diagnosis) to my colorectal surgeon & my oncologist they have all been great & super quick in getting the job done. 

    I also agree with what you’ve said (fantastically put I may add) about the squeaky wheel getting the oil, but how exhausting is it having to chase everything up when you have just had a cancer diagnosis & you’re going to be off kilter anyway. Here in the UK we’re generally referred to a colorectal surgeon first then onto oncology but you’re the first that I’ve heard of being diagnosed via a dermatologist. 

    Hopefully once you have this appointment on Wednesday with the radiology oncologist then things will start progressing as they should & a treatment plan will be put into place for you. I’ll just add that I’m so sorry that this has been your experience so far, I would definitely be making an official complaint somewhere along the line although I fear that the pandemic will be a cover all excuse for bad management of cases such as yours! 

    Please let us know how you get on, we’re always here when needed & have a wealth of experience amongst our lovely members. Good luck for Wednesday. 

    Nicola

  • Hello Nicola, thank you for your reply! 

    Pillar to post is exactly what I am going through!

    Squamous cell carcinoma in situ is what my biopsy said. My colonoscopy came back clear.

    I spoke with the radiologist oncologist today and what he said, I totally do not understand.

    He said I should see a colorectal surgeon however he doesn't know of one who deals with this, that he doesn't typically treat this either. That my colonoscopy was clear. I said if this started just inside my anus, would the colonoscopy doctor have looked at that part of the anal canal, just inside, and he said most definitely. I do not recall if the doctor who did the colonoscopy said he took a biopsy from there or further up inside but he did one that has came back clear. I would think if he did a biopsy on the ulcerated part I would have known, I never had a stitch or further pain or bleeding like you would imagine after being biopsied in such a delicate area. I know that there was condyloma found visually as he told me right after the procedure...was it tested? That I don't know. Edit I just remembered the doctor who did the colonoscopy was to refer me to a general surgeon as well, it was the same one who my gp was trying to send me to, the doctor who has done previous hemorrhoid banding 

    I don't understand how he basically said this is usually watched as it is not considered invasive at this point and spoke as though they don't typically do surgery as you could end up with resection and a colostomy bag and he as a radiologist hasn't dealt with this ...what? For real?

    I explained to him how this has spread from just the inside out, and I don't think anyone has has done a proper visual or done a biopsy in the right place. He said he knows of some new surgeons who may want to look as they may be interested in learning about this...what? That there used to be a doctor he knew of that dealt with this sort of thing but doesn't know if they still practice...I am in disbelief.

    At least he will refer me to the colorectal surgeon but I am starting to get concerned that I'm not being taken seriously. I had a leep procedure to remove pre cancerous cells on my cervix 20 years ago and this issue I have now isn't typically treated- according to him.

    Does this sound not right to anyone here?

  • Hi again ,

    So is the radiology oncologist definitely going to refer you to a colorectal surgeon?

    If you’ve been biopsied, regardless of where on the problem area that was & squamous cell carcinoma has come back as the result then you most definitely should be getting treated yes, also with a matter of urgency!

    Here in the UK I was given a flexible sigmoidoscopy at the same time as biopsies were taken & that, like your colonoscopy, was clear, my surgeon wouldn’t confirm anal cancer until the biopsy results came back but you have all of this information & a diagnosis so as far as I’m concerned some kind of treatment should be in at the very least the planning stage! Things here for me moved really quickly once I had my diagnosis & within a week & a half I’d had both MRI & CT scans to assist in staging my cancer & had an appointment with my colorectal surgeon, he decidedly mine was early enough stages to be removed via local resection (no stoma required) I then went on to have a reduced course of chemoradiotherapy also.

    Regarding the surgery, here surgery is only an option as first line treatment if you’re caught very early as I was I think the surgery your radiology oncologist is speaking of is possibly APR surgery where everything, rectum & anus etc., is fully removed which is generally only performed as a last resort to clear recurring anal cancer or a cancer that hasn’t responded to treatment & then obviously you’re left with an irreversible stoma. Some of our members here have temporary stomas but generally only if the tumour they have is large enough that it’s blocking the anal canal, these are then reversed on the whole once you’ve healed from treatment & things have settled right down. Having said this if you’re not a candidate for local resection like I was then you should be referred to an oncologist where a course of chemoradiotherapy should be planned for you. 

    I can’t understand your Dr’s saying it’s usually watched rather than treated, the only time that should be happening is if the cells were pre-cancerous (AIN) but you’ve had a diagnosis of SCC! I would chase, chase, chase this until you’re seen by someone competent enough to get you treated as although SCC anal cancer is generally a slow growing cancer it most definitely is invasive & can be metastatic.

    Please let us know when you hear any more. 

    Nicola

  • Hi I've just read your post and am shaking my head in disbelief. What is going on with the doctors?! How stressful for you at a n already stressful time. You don't need all this messing around. When you see the Colorectal surgeon (and I would push for that to happen as soon as possible), take a list of questions in and insist on getting proper answers. I would definitely mention your previous cervical pre-cancerous condition as well as the condyloma. Condyloma are caused by the HPV virus, some of the strains like HPV 16 and 18, we know are high risk for cancer. I agree with   that it would only be where the cells were pre-cancerous where a watch and wait policy would be adopted but there's already a diagnosis of SCC! Would you be able to take someone with you  to your appointment for support?  Bev