Coronavirus

Hi Greg and SuperHealer

My point was actually much wider than this virus, it was about us as a species and our impact on the world we live in/on. We are of course very focused on this current crisis, but we need to be looking at a much bigger and wider picture. Worse than this will come if we dont start to make some big changes. When people cant contemplate life without stocks of loo rolls, then (non existent) god help us.

To come back to this particular virus, I think there has been an interesting mix of reaction, over reaction and under reaction. Our govt has been slow in realising what it needed to do, some people have failed to understand at all what they need to do, and others are just in a state of total panic. I get why you SuperHealer point out the impact of other pandemics, especially the Spanish flu of 1918. The difference with this one is the ability to infect more people and thus overwhelm our health services worldwide, leading to high death rates. Personally I am angry and have been angry for years about the state of our NHS which has been deliberately cut to the bone and we now reap the whilrwind. Same with police, criminal justice etc. Our leaders have prioritsed money over people for decades now, accelerated in the last 10 years. I hope the populace will finally wake up and see that our leaders have, like the pied piper, led us into darkness. I hope so.

and just to add, that I too received the text about needing to self isolate for 12 weeks. The bit which intrigued me was that I was allowed to open a window. Why?  to scream out of maybe? I will obey the stay at home bit, but I will be in the garden. Unless they are telling me that the science has changed and that this is properly airborne, which as far as I am aware they have not said. So that instruction is, I think,  part of the over-reaction. The problem with rules which appear to have no rationale, is that they bring into question more sensible instructions.

Hi Ownedbystaffies,

I loved your comment about the window, made me laugh out loud. You’ve hit the nail on the head that the government’s advice is merely that, advice. Humans will receive and respond to that advice particular to their individual mindset. Some will ignore it and do whatever they want, some will pick out the bits they like and ignore the rest and some will take it incredibly literally and may start marking out 2 metres in their house. I think the overall premise should be common sense - but not many including myself are strong in that area unfortunately.

The same goes for your wider concerns. I am more and more convinced as time goes on that the human race itself is a virus and we will do whatever it takes to survive. But it will always be a reactionary adaption to change rather than a proactive one. We are self-aware, yes, but also self-ish, so I think we will only see real change when the emergency strikes (as Coronavirus has shown). And at what point the general populace accepts that emergency has arrived will again be different, as this virus has proved. I suspect some may have deeper cause for self-reflection once this has sorted itself out, but sadly one thing that my History degree taught me is that the human race has an exceptional ability to forget the mistakes of the past.

Hope you manage to stay safe in this shielding period.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Yes as the line in The Boxer by Simon and Garfunkel says " a man hears what he wants to hear,and disregards the rest".

And yes, the lesson of history is that we dont learn the lesson of history. There was a good radio 4 programme a while ago called "the things we forgot to remember" which was about exactly that.

Good luck to us all. Probably the best thought it that despite the infection rate and fatalities, most people will not die of this, and in fact many will not be infected at all unless the worst case scenario happens.

The global blanket lock down is a huge mistake with dire consequences.  We can end the lock down so healthy individuals can go back to work (also for the benefit of the vulnerable population), with precautions of course.

*    wear cloth face masks

*    hand hygiene with soap and sanitiser

*    Shops and offices with good system in place

*    physical distancing

*    voluntary lock down for the vulnerable population (protect them by wearing masks)

*    limit large crowd gathering

The reason that the infection rate in the West has been ridiculously high is that the wrongful advice has been given.  So many lives have been needlessly lost.  If everyone were considerate and applied common sense and wore masks (that would be a double protection, think about the logic), there would be no need for blanket lock down really.  How many more lives have been lost and ruined around the World for this wrongful advice ?

Wearing a mask is just a small price to pay.  You can make a mask at home.

PS Even though there are more politicians coming out to ask people to wear masks now, they refuse to admit their previous wrongful advice by saying wearing masks is just to protect others in order to make them look not at fault.  This is terrible, now more (healthy or otherwise) people are too scared to wear masks because of the stigma.  They think if I wear a mask others will think I'm a walking virus.  Also, now selfish people wouldn't bother to wear a mask, they have no reason to.

Please, encourage everyone to apply common sense instead of listening to and waiting for politicians or experts to rescue you.  They might be good at public speaking, they don't know more than you do.  If they did, I'm sure politicians like our PM wouldn't have caught the virus in the first place.  He was just lucky that he had been a priority at the intensive care.  He doesn't have to care about his own finances due to the lock down for as long as forever as he would still get paid regardless. 

Most people make the grave mistake of thinking that their long term health is the responsibility of the authorities.  The hard fact is that nobody cares about your own health more than yourself !  So take these simple precautions to protect yourselves.

While it is true that wearing masks can prevent spreading, it can also help protect  you!  Think about this scenario: you are chatting to an infected person, do you think you'd be better protected to have a mask on or not?  One doesn't need to be a genius to work that out!  So why let the "experts" to mess with your intellect? 

It goes without saying that supermarket staff and chefs who prepare food for others should wear masks, hairdressers should too, most importantly if you are approaching vulnerable people e.g. at a care home.  If the politicians are capable of offering effective advice, the blanket lock down will be totally unnecessary.  The dire consequences of blanket lock down is not just about money.

Not only can you make your own masks, you can order online some cool goggles that look like glasses.  With common sense, you can choose the PPE that suit your personal needs without affecting hospital supplies.

Take care, protect yourselves and stay safe !  Speak up to end this pandemic madness.

Hi Super Healer,

I really don’t know what the right thing to do is here. As an extremely vulnerable person myself, what I really want is there to be enough capacity to help me if / when I do become ill. I think I am most nervous about a quick exit to lockdown because I think we all know those people who will be reckless, go about spreading the germs and then start overloading the NHS. I think my preference would be for a slow exit from lockdown - maybe start with a small portion of the workforce and see how it goes, then maybe do a bit more and so on. I really don’t like the idea of locking away the vulnerable and letting everyone else get on with it. Firstly, I don’t think that is ethical and secondly I am not convinced it will help the vulnerable as they will have more chance of needing a ventilator at the same time as an “unfortunate” healthy person, and we all know where the ventilator is going should the doctors need to choose.

I think take our time, try a few small steps and see how it goes, is the best way forward. But then again, what do I know?!

Greg

Hi Greg

As long as you follow the advice I listed, I don't think you are at much risk.  If it were as easy to catch, you would have got infected by now.  I blame the mass hysteria on scaremongering journalism (e.g. recently a musician died from a heart condition, but the report claimed that he died from the virus!).  Also, you say locking away the vulnerable is unethical, but what difference does it make with the blanket lock down, the vulnerable population get locked away anyway.

However, I do agree with you that there are people out there who have no consideration for others whatsoever.  There seem to be 3 main schools of thoughts:

1.  Ones who think killing off part of the population is part of Nature, so the selfish ones refuse to take precautions e.g. refuse to wear a mask.  Our PM did not wear a mask when he was infected.

2.  Ones who are so scared that they think only a drastic measure like blanket lock down is the only answer

3.  Ones (like myself) who believe that there MUST be better strategies to avoid infection than a blanket lock down which has ruined so many lives (unnecessarily) inflicted unimaginable suffering around the World (is this not just as unethical?).  It's not just about finances.  Life is not just about longevity, the quality of life is critical. 

If only the politicians have given the correct advice, the death tolls in the West wouldn't have to be so horrendous.  The authorities could have learned from those countries which had had the experience in 2004, also brainstorm which strategies would work.  Work out e.g. why one country suffers over 40,000 deaths (with blanket lock down) yet another only 4 (without a blanket lock down).  The numbers speak for themselves.

If two people with no symptoms, BOTH are wearing masks and glasses, are interacting and not too close (physical distancing), the chances of infection are extremely low.  Viruses don't have the ability to thrive well without a host's help.  Precautions are necessary.

Like I say before, crossing the road is dangerous, can we ban driving?  The blanket lock down is like saying "oh in order to avoid food poisoning, we must order people to stop eating indefinitely".  It's not just unethical it's madness.  Millions of people around the World die from smoking related illnesses, far more than this virus, yet no law to ban smoking.  It makes no sense.

I agree with you it has to be carefully planned.  i.e. put in place some strict rules before shops can re-open.  The ones who have a secure system should be allowed to open.  Work out the logistics.  Encourage everyone to come up with good ideas.

I'm sure people would be able to come up with some smart ideas.  Everyone must try harder.

Hi SuperHealer,

I think these are just such unprecedented times that everyone is feeling their way through. I’m sure there will be some progress at the update on Sunday. It’s such a fine balancing act and I’m sure we’ll have to do some sort of trial and error approach and see how everything pans out. These are definitely unusual times. Personally I think the lockdown was a good idea - there are so many people alive now who would otherwise have been dead, that for me, it was definitely worth it. I very much appreciate that a lot of people have suffered though as a result of the lockdown, and we can’t forget those people. I still think the lockdown has been a net saver of lives. Now that the number of cases and deaths seems to be subsiding a little, we should try relaxing things, but slow and steady would be my view and see what happens to the numbers. We have to avoid another spike in unnecessary deaths in my opinion.

All the best

Greg