Predict 2024 version

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I have been diagnosed with triple negative apocrine breast cancer. This has spread to one lymph node. I had surgery a few weeks to remove it and an auxiliary clearance. My oncologist used the Predict tool to demonstrate survival rates for my type of cancer with and without chemotherapy. However there is a later version from March 2024 that although it has apparently been validated by several NHS trusts, is not yet being used by the NHS. When I put my cancer details into this version it gives very different results with far more women surviving with surgery alone, and far fewer benefiting from chemotherapy. The old version has 45 women surviving in ten years with surgery alone, 11 more with chemotherapy, with 18 deaths from other causes and 26 deaths from breast cancer. The new 2024 version using the same details has 72 women surviving with just surgery alone, and only 4 benefiting from chemo, with 11 deaths from other causes and 13 deaths from breast cancer. There is an enormous difference between 45 women surviving with just surgery and 72. I know the 2024 version might not have been validated yet, but I don't feel I can ignore it in my decision making regarding whether or not to have chemotherapy. Obviously I don't want to have chemotherapy unnecessarily. I am also aware that there is some evidence that chemotherapy doesn't work for apocrine cancers, but that they are so rare there is very little evidence. Do you know how robust the 2024 version is and is it safely something I can base my decision making on? 

  • Dear AppleBlossom,

    Thank you for getting in touch with the Macmillan Support Line. My name is Joanne, and I’m one of the Cancer Information Nurse Specialists. I can see that you have joined our breast cancer forum and triple negative breast cancer forum. I hope you are finding them helpful and supportive.

    We’re sorry to hear about your recent diagnosis of triple negative breast cancer. It’s good that you are looking at your treatment options and actively researching information before making treatment decisions.

    In the UK treatment recommendations are evidence based and any changes to treatment guidelines go through a rigorous validation process. Predict is a useful tool to calculate possible benefits of chemotherapy and as you have found there is an updated version. This version from March 24 is still awaiting validation and therefore isn’t used by healthcare professionals. It is understandable that you have questions, as for you, the difference is quite significant.

    Here at the Macmillan Support Line, we can give general advice and support. We are independent from the NHS and don’t have access to medical records so can’t give personalised information. We are unable to advise on your individual risk or how robust the 2024 version is.

    We would recommend having another discussion with your oncologist or specialist nurse who may be able to go through some of the differences in the statistics and help you decide. You could also investigate a second opinion.

    I hope this information helps. Please feel free to get back in touch if you want further information or support.

    Best wishes

    Joanne F,

    Cancer Information Nurse Specialist.

    You can also speak with the Macmillan Support Line team of experts by phoning 0800 808 0000, calls are free, and lines are open 8am-8pm, 7 days a week, or you can send us an email or use webchat.

     

    Ref JF/ MD

     

  • Thank you for your reply. I can see it's difficult for professionals to be be able to recommend anything on the basis of the new version of Predict until it's been validated. But in my case there's such a big discrepancy I worry that I may be having chemotherapy unnecessarily. But on the other hand my cancer is triple negative and has spread to one lymph node and apparently had already begun to spread out of that lymph node. Extracapsular spread I think it's called. And my Ki 67 level was high. So taking all that into account maybe it is better to go for chemo so I  can feel I've done everything I possibly can, and to be on the safe side. My oncologist is recommending what she said was a "gentler" form of chemo. TC for four cycles of 21 days.

    Thank you