There's a Vibe ... and there are clinical trials and the wonders of 'backing up and restoring ...'

4 minute read time.

 

I was going to preface this blog post by saying ‘I am a ‘Carer’ and my husband’s prognosis is very bleak indeed …’   However, I have several problems with that.  One is that the term ‘carer’ is not a term which fits me well because it suggests a stage of dependency which my husband has not reached and, as far as he is concerned, will not reach - ever.   And the other problems?  I am not prepared to go into those; suffice it to say I have been keeping an eye on the probable future and it terrifies me beyond thought and comprehension.

So here is the scene:  The Hounds have been enjoying the snow (it has been a good winter for skiers and snow-loving hounds) and they are gently snoring.  The whole household is exhausted – a great deal of time has been spent tracking down, fruitlessly, the missing mobile phone which has certainly found its way to sunnier climes – we suspect Cuba, via Stockholm.  However, we have discovered that we have inadvertently been using the ‘i-tunes’ ‘back-up and restore’ facility and so all is well, and Our Hero’s new phone is, almost, ‘restored’ to health. 

Our Hero is waiting to hear from the ‘new’  oncologist to find out whether there has been any adjustment to the treatment ‘plan’ – which is really no plan at all.   

There has been not a sound from that quarter.  

We suspect that we have been duped – it is all just a way of making us accept the inevitable – that there is no treatment any more on the NHS except …except for the clinical trial. 

Now, I know that there will be some of you out there who desperately want to be on a clinical trial – any clinical trial – particularly if you have got to the end of the road as far as treatment is concerned.  

And wouldn’t we all, in that situation? 

Which gets us to the gist of this – which is a question of medical ethics.   One of the trials which Our Hero may be offered has already been extensively trialled for lung cancer – with variable success.  The huge company who make this drug have,interestingly,  changed the name of the drug.  Our Hero is, according to the medics, dying but, because he did respond so well to chemo, and he is relatively young, he is a very much better subject than someone older and more compromised physically. (Better results, don’t you think?) It would probably be a Phase II trial which only requires – if you are a lucky researcher and can find enough people who have the ‘right’ kind of cancer in your area – about a hundred ‘patients.’   Then the trial will move onto Phase III – which will be a much larger study.

We have both ethical and logistical problems with this.  Any discussion with the oncologist who is doing the research will involve a hundred mile round trip and, therefore, a great deal of our time, and not inconsiderable expense.  It will, we assume, be a ‘double blind’ trial, so Our Hero may well be getting a placebo.  We might, therefore, be both out of pocket and, much, much more importantly, very much out of time.   

When I have mentioned the ethics of all this to one of the many oncologists we have seen, I have been told ‘that someone has to do it, how can we develop drugs, otherwise?'   After all, we are assured, it can only be done with ‘informed consent.’

But the question must arise, how can you get ‘informed consent’ from those who are, undoubtably, one of the most vulnerable groups of human beings you can ever encounter– the terminally ill?  How ‘informed’ and rational is any ‘consent’ going to be?

Forgive me for being cynical, but the question must be asked: who is going to benefit from this most?   Does the word ‘exploitation’ not spring to mind? 

And before any of you get on your high horses and talk about altruism, and how wonderful it might be for others suffering from cancer in the future, just let me remind you about the position of these global drug companies:  they are not doing business for the greater benefit of mankind – they are doing it for money.   If they were altruistic, they would be giving away their drugs for HIV in developing countries; they would be tackling malaria … (and, Wise Old Cynic, if you read this, for TB) and so on. 

We are not talking here of anything which could be revolutionary like dendritic cell therapy which might trigger a targetted immune response against a specific cancer - a wonder vaccine -  we are just talking about another sort of chemo which has already been trialled on another sort of cancer.  And, as most of us know, some chemotherapy drugs which pass through all the clinical trials are not even remotely guaranteed to be effective – something we had not realized until Our Hero was through his third cycle and had ‘responded well.’   At the time, our oncologist’s delight bemused us – we had had no inkling that ‘response’ rates were statistically so low for this cancer.  Our naivety of course; we didn’t know what questions to ask.

And here we are:  still waiting to hear whether the new oncologist will at least ‘discuss’ the horrible radiotherapy and whether they will perhaps ask a liver surgeon to look at the case. 

In the meantime, an appointment has been made with that researcher ...

Ah – those ‘backup and restore’ functions; don’t we all wish ….? 

A blog from Buzzie - not yet really a 'carer', but caring very much ... 

 

Anonymous
  • FormerMember
    FormerMember

    Well Buzzie I'm a bit lost for words for you on this. Many unladylike ones come to mind, but they would be wasted. To use a placebo in situations as serious as this really amazes me - for colds etc yes. You certainly need a 'cynical' head for this to make your decision, but what an awful situation to be forced into. My heart goes out to both of you.

    Johnr - Dr doll is pretty much pure metal ow so I'm replacing it with a teddy bear - plenty of room on this for sharps.

    Jewels xx

  • Slightly off topic but reinforces how far we still have to go re treatment. Before I saw the heamatologist week and a half ago I did some more research and found in Australia and Canada they carry out genetic tests on NHL biopsey's and for mine are able to sub group it with one having a better outcome than the other. Something as a patient I would want to know, however in this country they don't do it and consider the work abroad as trials even though when you read articles and posts on their help sites its seems part of the process.

    Wonder how many decades it will take to get here.

  • Just a few thoughts on the use of placebos.  It certainly does pose ethical issues when human lives are at stake and involved in placebo trials.  The argument as I see it, against the use of placebos, is that when a person who is offered a double-blind trial, part of which will include a placebo, that patient has not first of all been offered every conceivable treatment prior to that trial.  Surely by allocating a patient to the placebo group, this would violate the patient’s rights to receiving the best treatment available?  Also, in testing these new drugs there must come a point in a clinical trial when a drug and/or its dosage might be regarded as detrimental to the patient and the trial stopped before causing further harm.  Yet by using placebos, the outcome will almost certainly be harmful to a cancer patient, as in effect, he will not be receiving any treatment at all.

    Also, I believe there must be an inherent weakness in these trials in that there is far too much vested interest in them, which probably leads to bias, by government quangos, pharmaceuticals and other agencies and sponsors.  To be truly effective and altruistic, these trials should be conducted by independent research agencies, with no design or vested interest in the trial’s outcome.  Again, it comes down to monies, grants, funding etc.  

    At the same time, I do believe in having trials as it’s the way for new drugs to become available to more people, and my own chemo regime was part of a comparison trial.

    Anyhow, all this is academic, and our dear MW will continue to do what’s right by her Hero, even though it must be exhausting for her.  We’re right behind you Grace.

    Keep at them!!

    Crystal xx

  • FormerMember
    FormerMember

    Thank you all for you comments and support - you have given me a lot of food for thought,  but I will try to keep this short!  Firstly, another correction!  (Goodness, I must have been in a twist - writing the blog in the middle of the night can't have helped!) The  clinical trial Our Hero might be offered is more correctly described as an 'anti-cancer' drug - it is not another form of chemo.   More on that later, perhaps, you lucky things!

    Normally - I can't tell you how delighted I am that your son has had such successful treatment.  What a terrible time your family has been through.  Of course, clinical trials must be done, and we all owe a considerable debt to those who have taken part in trials which have led to improved and, indeed, life-saving treatments.  Thank you for helping me get things back into perspective - it is too easy to get tunnel vision in our situation and forget that for some cancers treatment has advanced considerably.

    I didn't perhaps make my principal concern clear:  it is not the trials as such, it is using placebos in trials involving terminally ill patients.  Crystal has cogently articulated what is at the heart of this issue:  it must be deemed unethical to withold treatment which may be of benefit to the patient.    Additionally, for this particular group of patients, who will be offered no other treatment beyond palliative care having already recieved chemotherapy and some, perhaps, radiotherapy, a 'blind' trial seems unecessary - there is, as it were, a 'control' group already there - all the other advanced OC patients.  

    As for my irritation about big pharmaceutical companies, perhaps my anger would have been better directed at NICE!  I am only just beginning to appreciate what a strangle-hold this organization has on advances in medicine.  Thanks, Daffie for telling us about a much more humane way of conducting trials. You keep fighting too!  

    John - I don't think you were off-topic at all.  I was thinking about this very subject and wondering if I could cram it in without driving you all to drink - a blog-post for you perhaps?  Developments in this field (and as you say they are much further on in other countries) could save the NHS a fortune, as well as making treatment so much more effective - treatment really tailored to the individual rather than the try-it-and-see-and-if that-doesn't-work-we'll-try-another-type-of chemo  method that seems to go on a lot!

    Jewels - I forbid you to use a teddy-bear!  Forgive the poor man - he was just doggedly sticking to his guidelines and doesn't understand that grief takes many forms.  

    Sorry about all that - phew!  

    Thanks again, and soup vibes to you all.  

  • FormerMember
    FormerMember

    if i was offered a trial and they told me i might get a placebo i would tell them to BEEP off to be honest......

    i hate hospitals ..i have a nasty phobia about going inside a hospital......there is no way on earth would i go in a hospital to be given a ` fake pill ` or whatever...

    clinical tests ? well i dont think i would go for one unless there was a decent chance of it working....

    but maybe im not a good person to reply to this with me being afraid of everything to do with hospitals...if it hsdnt been for a trio of special friends i couldnt have even had my r-dhap.....and without my mac nurse i wouldnt have started my chemo at all.

    after the r-dhap they said i was in remission.....but they wanted to give me the beam chemo.......

    i was feeling ok at the time and knew the beam chemo would make me feel crap again....they said the beam might keep me in remission longer.....i turned the beam chemo down , after all i was feeling ok, still am....and id had enough of hospitals....

    of course when my lymphoma comes back, then il go for the beam chemo and my stem cells putting back in...

    anyway....as i say i couldnt go for a trial if i might get a smarty instead of the real thing......and i couldnt go for a trial unless there was a decent chance of it working....

    another, all patients are different maybe.....what one would go for , another wouldnt...

    xx